Black in spirit? - Page 2

Steve H · 23-11-2003, 11:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Incognitas

the trouble is that most people of white persuasion are terrified of talking or addressing black issues because they feel they are going to say or do the wrong thing.the results is that we never really get a really good healthy discussion because it makes us uncomfortable.

Incog.

Well said... To be honest I think some people in the world create a bigger problem than there actually is.. Not just in Racial differences, but in all things.. If people left things alone, I think we'd find there's less of a problem.

Russ · 23-11-2003, 12:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by aliferste

Im sorry, I was talking about "black spirit" in terms of oppresion. The original poster was talking about being "white in spirit" and i was discussing it in those terms.

Interesting what you say about sweeping thousands of years of tradition under the carpet....whch is entirely what white have traditionally have done. Which is why black people now try and claw something back!

You're getting the wrong idea about my intentions in this thread. I was just pointing out how it would be seen as extremely politically incorrect to use an expression as "white in spirit" whereas "black in spirit" is deemed perfectly acceptable. I'm not talking about how people have oppressed over the years (something I have never done - so why should I feel excluded when I hear of 'black organisations'? I've never discriminated anyone of the grounds of their colour, race or whatever). Just one thing though - and I ask this as objectively as possible - can you understand (albeit probably not agree) why people such as myself are unhappy at hearing such discrimination against whites, seeing as I/we agree in equal opportunities for all?

aliferste · 23-11-2003, 13:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ D

. Just one thing though - and I ask this as objectively as possible - can you understand (albeit probably not agree) why people such as myself are unhappy at hearing such discrimination against whites, seeing as I/we agree in equal opportunities for all?

Nope

The way i see it is this.

Lets say you have two groups of people... green and blue.
The greens have all the power and money. The greens think of the blues as being bad people and lazy people. They even come up with scientific facts that say this about the blue people. The blue people outnumber the green people by quite a big number. They did not let the blue people enjoy many of the things that the green people could!
The green people actually say that everything green is good and everything blue is bad. That is in fact quite fundamental. That everything blue is bad!!

Eventually things start to change....mainly because the blue people got angry and decided to reclaim the fact that they are in fact blue and this is not a bad thing

The decided to make blue clubs so they could share experiances of what it was like to be shown as bad by the green people. They decided to enjoy there Blueness as for years it had been thought of as being bad. they even called it the spirit of being blue......the fact that they had overcome this !!!
They even took the bad words that the green people called them and made them there own........they would greet each other with "hey bluey" which was a derogetary term that green poeple used for them!

Which is why im hapy when i see blue spirit being promoted.....and why i think it is strange that it would annoy someone!

Im racist.....My society made me that way....the laws that i abide by perpetuate this, the places that i work try and combat this but really it will take a long long time!

**Chris** · 23-11-2003, 14:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by aliferste

<snip>
Which is why im hapy when i see blue spirit being promoted.....and why i think it is strange that it would annoy someone!

It certainly doesn't annoy me - as I said, I get annoyed when double standards are applied, such that it's ok to talk about 'black in spirit' as this must necessarily be a good thing, while 'white in spirit' is frowned on, as this must necessarily be bad.

Quote:

Im racist.....My society made me that way....the laws that i abide by perpetuate this, the places that i work try and combat this but really it will take a long long time!

I'm sorry you feel that way. You appear to be saying that to be white is to be institutionally racist. I completely disagree.

aliferste · 23-11-2003, 14:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by towny

I'm sorry you feel that way. You appear to be saying that to be white is to be institutionally racist. I completely disagree.

yea but what i meant was that one you realise that....then you can move on and do something about it. Which is what i try and do!

So what is your opinion on it then? Does it annoy you that a group can promote "black spirit" ?

Do you think that "white spirit" should be promoted?

Russ · 23-11-2003, 15:10

I don't think white or black spirit should be promoted, but then again, you've admitted to being racist - my discussion with you on this subjects ends here.

aliferste · 23-11-2003, 15:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ D

I don't think white or black spirit should be promoted, but then again, you've admitted to being racist - my discussion with you on this subjects ends here.

Im not racist in the way that you think i am Russ. Do you honestly think after every post you have read that i have written that I am in fact racist??

I said it as a point which was that if you live in this white society then you have got to realise that the structures that make up our society are fundamentally racist.
Once you realise this you can move forward.

hmmmm

On reflection perhaps what i should have said was "i collude with racism"

My primary role is to challenge white racism !!

Russ · 23-11-2003, 15:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by aliferste

Im racist.....My society made me that way....the laws that i abide by perpetuate this, the places that i work try and combat this but really it will take a long long time!

Oh I'm sorry, it's just when people post/say things like this, it give me the impression that they are in fact, 'racist'.....

In which case please be more craeful with your words next time.

Your primary role is to challenge white racism? Good on you, I admire that, just as long as it's done responsibly. One of my primary roles is to challenge black racism, seems like we're at opposite ends of the spectrum in some respects but closer together in others.

**Chris** · 23-11-2003, 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by aliferste

yea but what i meant was that one you realise that....then you can move on and do something about it. Which is what i try and do!

So what is your opinion on it then? Does it annoy you that a group can promote "black spirit" ?

Do you think that "white spirit" should be promoted?

I agree with you to the extent that, growing up, I didn't spot the racist assumptions in our society ... they were just there and I was immersed in them, the jokes etc. However like you I have tried to do something about it since becoming 'aware'. I really do think that things have moved on in this country since then (I'm thinking back maybe 15 years), which is why I can't accept a charge of 'institutional racism' on the whole of 'white' society - enough of us know better, I think. I'm quite prepared to admit that plenty still don't, tho'.!

As for promotion of 'black spirit', no, that doesn't annoy me, certainly not if I have understood it correctly. I am giving it a wider interpretation than I think you are, as you seem to want to define black spirit in terms of oppression and nothing else. As for 'white spirit', I don't think there is a need for it to be 'promoted' in an abstract sense, but then that's not the original point raised in this thread. The original point, as I understood it, was to compare directly an advert for someone with 'black spirit' to join a band with a similar, theoretical advert under similar circumstances for a person with 'white spirit.' In those circumstances, because I do not see the 'white spirit' as fundamentally defined by oppression, I don't see a problem.

aliferste · 23-11-2003, 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ D

Oh I'm sorry, it's just when people post/say things like this, it give me the impression that they are in fact, 'racist'.....

In which case please be more craeful with your words next time.

Your primary role is to challenge white racism? Good on you, I admire that, just as long as it's done responsibly. One of my primary roles is to challenge black racism, seems like we're at opposite ends of the spectrum in some respects but closer together in others.

Yea well........How was i to know you would take it the wrong way!!! Its SUNDAY.....im hungover OK !!!!!

Anyway...... Have a read at this article

http://www.black-collegian.com/afric...itey1299.shtml

Ramrod · 23-11-2003, 15:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Incognitas

Anyway what the feck IS white music?ALL of todays modern music has it's roots in the gospel/blues and Rythm and Blues which developed out of the slavery culture of the US.

Incog.

Exactly!

Russ · 23-11-2003, 15:52

And all that has basically told us is "There are more white on black attacks than black on white" - well yeah, we knew that. But to underestimate racist attitudes and attacks on white is foolhardy and will only worsen the problem.

aliferste · 23-11-2003, 16:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ D

But to underestimate racist attitudes and attacks on white is foolhardy and will only worsen the problem.

What problem?

kronas · 23-11-2003, 16:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ D

But to underestimate racist attitudes and attacks on white is foolhardy and will only worsen the problem.

but that is rare...........

Russ · 23-11-2003, 16:05

It's rare I agree but to treat it any less serious will only breed resentment and the feeling of double standards. I have never been racist to anyone (to the best of my knowledge) but if I reported someone for racially abusing me I would feel slightly put out if the response I received from the police would be any less than if I had been the purportrator, as I suspect would be the case.