The slow march of the PC plodders

Originally Posted by Damien

Also the rest of your posts shows how the term has been Hijacked. to simply apply to negitive storys while others are down to Anti-rascim and so on

If you agree the term has been hijacked, then I suggest you think again about defending what a great thing PC is.

Whatever it was, it is now an evil without which our society would work a whole lot better.

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by Damien

PC's idea is too stop sexism and racism

But by attempting to do so it actually escalates some of it.......eg:

For years, Whitehall refused to address the exponential rise in HIV caused by African immigration, for fear that admitting that it was an issue would fuel racism. But denying there was a problem not only allowed it to escalate, it also made it impossible to target help to African communities in Britain who most need it.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Damien

No, Sorry. This is too far. There are many examples.

PC's idea is too stop sexism and racism but no positive examples of these will ever come up. The principle is a good one and it has stopped some negitive terms from used.

PC, in theory, is a good thing. In practice, however, it has been hijacked and seems to be being used by people for their own ends.

Take, for example, where I work. A couple of years ago, we employed a new guy. He knew his stuff. However, that is not why he was employed. He was employed by the Uni purely because he had had a row at his previous employers (BA) and cried Racism. IMO, he should have got the job on Skiils, not colour.

Note, I actually think it was a good thing that we did employ him (he was good at the job), but the fact he cried Racism when he got into trouble at work, IMO, cheapens the plight of those who do geniunly suffer racism.

[danielf]

I agree with damien that is becomes a bit of a semantic game, in that anti-racism is good and pc not, and therefore everything bad is pc.

The wider issue, I think, is that many will agree there is no place for racism/abusive terms where these are clearly seen as abusive by the receiving party. It becomes different when others try to decide what certain groups might consider offensive without consulting these groups first. This has become known as the negative form of PC, and is something that many (including me) object to.

I do agree however, that the media tend to hype these stories, and the practice is not as widespread as some of them might like us to believe.

[Nugget]

Originally Posted by Damien

No, The Term PC has been Hijacked. It is basically ensuring equal treatment not using offensive words for discribe minority groups. You do not have to go back far to find examples where racsit lanuage is used in programs.

Words like 'Pakki' and 'Nigger' where used a lot and now they are not allowed. Postive example number one! The reason you havent seen a positive example is because the term is now applyed to only negitive examples while positive examples go ignored ( A story about someone being sacked for racist abuse isnt a good story, but christmas under attack is!)

The reason its so popular a story to run with is because of the racist sub-text. It basicially saying that our current way of life is under attack from these minority groups with stirs a lot of anger

Actually, I'd argue that the word 'Paki' wasn't originally used in a derogatory manner (at least not where I grew up). Originally, it was used purely as an abbreviation of 'Pakistani' - it's only in (comparatively) recent years that it's taken on the racist connotation.

As for 'Nigger', I seem to remember a thread a while ago that discussed the fact that the black community were, to one degree or another, 'reclaiming' the word, so can it still be seen as racist?

The trouble with 'Political Correctness' is that anyone can use it either as an excuse to do / not do something, or as a stick to beat someone else with when they do / don't do something.

Originally Posted by Damien

No, Sorry. This is too far. There are many examples.

PC's idea is too stop sexism and racism but no positive examples of these will ever come up. The principle is a good one and it has stopped some negitive terms from used.

Care to list a few of those examples?

The thing is, I think you are confusing outright terms of abuse with things that some would deem 'non PC'. It may well be non-PC to call a black person a nigger, but we didn't need the bleeding heart brigade to tell us that. The word has been regarded as an insult for my entire lifetime at least (30+ years). AFAIK the term 'political correctness' has only been in the public consciousness for maybe half that time.

Political correctness is not so much about banishing the outright offensive, it is about redefining the innocuous as unacceptable, the Orwellian idea being that if you change the name of something, you change the way people think about it. Thus you get blackboards renamed chalkboards, because we have apparently become so immature as a people that we are not to be trusted at all with any use of the word 'black' as it may be racist.

Once you accept this premise, of course, the logical progression is to find ever more petty examples of things that 'could be' offensive and so ought to be changed. And to return briefly to that example (the fabled winter lights), it may not have been council policy, but IMO it betrayed at least the petty mindset of the person who coined the phrase.

Originally Posted by Nugget

Actually, I'd argue that the word 'Paki' wasn't originally used in a derogatory manner (at least not where I grew up). Originally, it was used purely as an abbreviation of 'Pakistani' - it's only in (comparatively) recent years that it's taken on the racist connotation.

As for 'Nigger', I seem to remember a thread a while ago that discussed the fact that the black community were, to one degree or another, 'reclaiming' the word, so can it still be seen as racist?

The trouble with 'Political Correctness' is that anyone can use it either as an excuse to do / not do something, or as a stick to beat someone else with when they do / don't do something.

Actually a lot of negitive words where in fact positive at first. In the early days of American words where used which are deemeds offersive now.

By the way the defination of PC is:

avoidance of expressions or actions that can be perceived to exclude or marginalize or insult people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against

A noble aim! In some cases it may have been abused but the core is still good

[Nugget]

Originally Posted by Damien

By the way the defination of PC is:

And the problem with that definition is the use of the word 'perceived'. Perceived by whom? For what purpose?

Originally Posted by Nugget

And the problem with that definition is the use of the word 'perceived'. Perceived by whom? For what purpose?

exactly, where the 'victim' decides what is acceptable is where the concept of, what is 'PC', breaks down, rather that definition should say 'avoidance of expressions or actions that are intended to exclude etc etc'

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Nugget

As for 'Nigger', I seem to remember a thread a while ago that discussed the fact that the black community were, to one degree or another, 'reclaiming' the word, so can it still be seen as racist?

Apparently 'nigger' or 'niggers' is classed as offensive, but 'nigga' or 'niggerz/niggaz' isn't, according to a discussion forum I was reading last month.

[Nugget]

Originally Posted by Russ D

Apparently 'nigger' or 'niggers' is classed as offensive, but 'nigga' or 'niggerz/niggaz' isn't, according to a discussion forum I was reading last month.

Which is weird, considering that, unless it was written down (and dependant on the particular accent used) how would you know if someone said it to you

Originally Posted by Damien

By the way the defination of PC is:

Whatever it used to be defined as, it has long since become a completely different monster: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_correctness

And some further searching found http://www.capc.co.uk/ - check out the 'Your Stories' section to see what people think PC is all about.

BTW - if you're the wrong side of 30 you might appreciate: http://www.lauramidgley.com/TO%20ALL...20SURVIVED.doc

Last year my son was in a fight with an Asian boy at school and when he was asked why it happened his reply was "That Paki lad hit me first." He wasn't being racist, he just didn't know his name and used the first identifiable thing that came into his head! Result.. a weeks suspension for racist remarks. If the shoe was on the other foot and the Asian boy had said "That Brit lad hit me first" nobody would bat an eye lid and why should they? It's only an abreviation.

Originally Posted by ScaredWebWarrior

And some further searching found http://www.capc.co.uk/ - check out the 'Your Stories' section to see what people think PC is all about.

Thanks

I am going to become a member. Greeny on its way

[SlackDad]

I think, simply, that Political Correctness has an image problem. It has been associated, especially in the reactionary right wing press, as an attack on free speech, etc. For me I am happy to live in a world where respect and good manners are paramount, which at its core is what PC is all about. Of course there are always going to be examples dug up by certain media elements to show 'political correctness gone mad', but these are only minor indiscretions when compared to the fact that, for example, we live in a culture where public bodies scrutinise themselves and their behaviour (even if common sense does sometimes need to be applied).

It's easy to dismiss much of the good that PC has done, such as helping to banish offensive or insulting words, or even making sure that local authorities provide translated material etc. (I never see that in the paper!), as nothing to do with PC as it 'would have happened anyway due to legislation', but this is to deny the fact that PC has at least had a part in informing the policy makers.

Let's not forget what the aims of true PC are and remember what the world was like before, and of course apply a little common sense.