Welsh 16 year olds get the vote

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Indeed, a sixteen year old can choose to defend their country, yet is denied a voice in how that country should be run.

They can't fight on the front line until they are adults,and that is aged 18.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

They can't fight on the front line until they are adults,and that is aged 18.

I know, but you don't have to be on a front line to be at risk. Although of course the risk increases significantly.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

I know, but you don't have to be on a front line to be at risk. Although of course the risk increases significantly.

What do they do that puts them at risk?

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

What do they do that puts them at risk?

I dont know off hand, but I'm sure there are some... even the training they would undertake puts them at a degree of risk both physically and mentally?


'Thanks very much for your service you're grown up enough for that, but not to decide who should run our country' ?

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

I dont know off hand, but I'm sure there are some... even the training they would undertake puts them at a degree of risk both physically and mentally?


'Thanks very much for your service you're grown up enough for that, but not to decide who should run our country' ?

Nor to fight for it.

[Carth]

If the government . . whoever that turns out to be . . gives 16yr olds the vote, then they'd better start treating them as adults and pay them the benefits they currently aren't allowed until they reach 18.

I'm sure there will be more age related anomalies, but this one is a starter.


edit: oh, and stop giving them anonymity in court too

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by pip08456

Nor to fight for it.

OK, so service to country isn't enough?
Paying tax isn't enough?

[jfman]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

OK, so service to country isn't enough?
Paying tax isn't enough?

Would be a different story if they had a greater propensity to vote Conservative.

The generation who have squandered this countries wealth for the last 40 years want to pull up the drawbridge and cling onto this failed model for their lives.

Adding more younger voters who can see the obvious disparities in the system would go against that.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

OK, so service to country isn't enough?
Paying tax isn't enough?

They are kids.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

They are kids.

They are kids who are providing service to their country. Additionally they are paying taxes into this country that are then spent by people who they have no choice in selecting.

I think the voting age should be lowered to 16. I don't think the arguments about their lack of knowledge are convincing because we don't apply a mental capacity test before people are entitled to vote. People at 18 don't become suddenly able to make an informed judgment and neither are all adults making an 'informed' decision. People vote for all sorts of reasons and it's a bad path to go down for others to decide if those reasons are valid or not.

They are deemed wise enough to be tried as an adult for crimes, to join (if not fight) the army and to pay taxes. If we think they are able to make these decisions for themselves and to pay for the services the government provides then they should be able to vote.

In the end voting is a right, not a privilege, and so you need a very good reason to deny people that right.

[nomadking]

They don't suddenly become more knowledgeable and mature at 16. Children can be in a situation where they pay tax, then again if you're going to use that argument, what happens to those who don't pay tax, or incorrectly declare it(eg Jeremy Corbyn).

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by nomadking

They don't suddenly become more knowledgeable and mature at 16. Children can be in a situation where they pay tax, then again if you're going to use that argument, what happens to those who don't pay tax, or incorrectly declare it(eg Jeremy Corbyn).

Fair enough, then exclude anyone under the age of eighteen from paying tax ? and don't allow them to enlist in the armed forces.


Sound reasonable?

---------- Post added at 15:00 ---------- Previous post was at 14:59 ----------

Originally Posted by nomadking

They don't suddenly become more knowledgeable and mature at 16. Children can be in a situation where they pay tax, then again if you're going to use that argument, what happens to those who don't pay tax, or incorrectly declare it(eg Jeremy Corbyn).

As with everything there's balance required. there will be a proportion of sixteen year olds with a lot wiser heads then those over the age of eighteen.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Damien

I think the voting age should be lowered to 16. I don't think the arguments about their lack of knowledge are convincing because we don't apply a mental capacity test before people are entitled to vote. People at 18 don't become suddenly able to make an informed judgment and neither are all adults making an 'informed' decision. People vote for all sorts of reasons and it's a bad path to go down for others to decide if those reasons are valid or not.

They are deemed wise enough to be tried as an adult for crimes, to join (if not fight) the army and to pay taxes. If we think they are able to make these decisions for themselves and to pay for the services the government provides then they should be able to vote.

In the end voting is a right, not a privilege, and so you need a very good reason to deny people that right.

The post of the last few weeks need l say more..

[jfman]

Originally Posted by nomadking

They don't suddenly become more knowledgeable and mature at 16. Children can be in a situation where they pay tax, then again if you're going to use that argument, what happens to those who don't pay tax, or incorrectly declare it(eg Jeremy Corbyn).

It’s an arbitrary line at 16 just as much as it is 18. People go on about “world wisdom” achieved by 16 and 17 year olds without any real evidence for it.

Why don’t we restrict the franchise to the well educated? Property owners? Landed gentry? They’re all obviously ridiculous ideas. However so is the notion that someone is so much wiser simply because they are older.