NHS Cuts

Hmm! Won't the surviving administration just get paid more for having more responsibility?

[passingbat]

Originally Posted by Mr K

The chronic shortage of nurses, which will be further exacerbated by Brexit, is the major oncoming crisis.

Why would it be affected by Brexit. Brexit was about controlling immigration, not banning it.

Control means that you allow immigration where jobs need to be filled. Also, current EU immigrants will and should stay, despite May's ridiculous 'Bargaining Chip' nonsense.

[Osem]

The chronic shortage of nurses doesn't need more migration to cure it needs more home grown nurses properly paid and retained instead of masses of migrants willing and able to work for less that the Brits can earn elsewhere. As we can see by the huge numbers coming here, relying on migration becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by passingbat

Why would it be affected by Brexit. Brexit was about controlling immigration, not banning it.

Control means that you allow immigration where jobs need to be filled. Also, current EU immigrants will and should stay, despite May's ridiculous 'Bargaining Chip' nonsense.

That may of been the intention, but the impression we're giving is that foreign workers are not welcome here, skilled or not. We havent got enough nurses; adverts are everywhere, with hospitals are trying to pinch them from each other. They are even advertising jobs on the walls in wards. The changes the Govt. have made in getting rid of bursaries has made it even less attractive. Its ludicrous to ask nurses to take out a loan so they can qualify to look after us for a peanut wage. The NHS is utterly dependent on immigrants as we can't persuade enough mugs in this country that its worth their while.

[Taf]

Rules were set in place quite a while ago I understand, that all NHS staff should have a decent command of English. I don't know who does the testing, or to what level they must be proficient. But I know one EU staff member that often gets called upon to translate for a few other members of staff. Sometimes when he is off duty at home!

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Mr K

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-37186455

Mmm, this wasn't mentioned at the General Election. In fact the Tories promised £8biilion extra for the NHS, where is it? Surely not gone on tax cuts for the struggling rich?

Never mind the NHS can always rely on the £100 million a week promised by the Brexit devotees....

What, the £100m a week offer they now claim they never made? The first claim they've made that can be proved to be correct, as they claimed that the EU cost £395m a week that *could* (note that word) be spent on the NHS.

Originally Posted by Osem

The chronic shortage of nurses doesn't need more migration to cure it needs more home grown nurses properly paid and retained instead of masses of migrants willing and able to work for less that the Brits can earn elsewhere. As we can see by the huge numbers coming here, relying on migration becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

Bursaries being dropped hasn't helped with that plan...

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

I'm just worried about the fact that more centralisation for A&Es is on the cards..we already have had ours move 10 miles further away with a journey of around 20 to 30 minutes drive depending on traffic.For a peninsular town with only two routes in or out it's a nightmare for ambulances during rush hour..Centralisation would probably mean moving from Portsmouth to Southampton or vice versa..not pleasant for anyone in the area..

They are doing this all over the country.

These A&E closures and downgrades to first aid centres, busy roads (especially at peak time), coupled with the increased travelling times have made this issue literally a matter of life and death.

People will needlessly die in the back of ambulances.

Even those who use private facilities should remember that they need the NHS for A&E services.

Originally Posted by Maggy J

Hmm! Won't the surviving administration just get paid more for having more responsibility?

That's what they normally do...

Originally Posted by Maggy J

Bursaries being dropped hasn't helped with that plan...

Exactly.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

They are doing this all over the country.

These A&E closures and downgrades to first aid centres, busy roads (especially at peak time), coupled with the increased travelling times have made this issue literally a matter of life and death.

People will needlessly die in the back of ambulances.

Even those who use private facilities should remember that they need the NHS for A&E services.

When I'm driving alongside the cycle super highway my big concern, bigger than the fact no one uses it is how do ambulances manage, you can't pull over for them, there's no where to go now, not sure how many cyclists died each month on London, 1 I suspect but you can bet many more people will die in the back of ambulances in traffic

[Mr K]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...-from-collapse

At last an admission, that despite whatever reforms, we're going to need to pay more for a healthcare service in an ageing and increasing population. Why is it always 'retired ministers' who feel they can now tell the truth ? He could of maybe have been a bit more honest more when he was in office?

Not sure we need the cosmetics of a new 'health and care' tax, we have income tax already - just increase it ? It's the same in the end, all smoke and mirrors. Cutting tax for high earners might not have been a great move after all, who'd have thought ?

See the Tories have also reneged on their £72k care cost cap. Another manifesto commitment shelved. It can now be found in the fiction section at WH Smiths along with all their other manifestos.

[Chrysalis]

if Leicester loses a hospital I dread to think of the results, already the city is struggling big time with healthcare with local GPs refusing to refer patients due to massive pressure in the hospitals. The GP situation is no better either.

These cuts are about the NHS overshooting its budget in combination with the fact that budgets are not growing to match population growth. In addition to this the centralised budget doesnt reflect the situation from area to area, with some areas managing better than others, but one area managing to stay within budget doesnt mean its surplus budget goes to a struggling area.

My personal opinion based on my own limited research and the budget per head deficit we have vs france and germany is that the NHS needs circa 30% per head budget increase, with none of that increase going on wage increases but only on additional staff and beds. With the political trend pointing at lowering taxation then this clearly is never going to happen hence the disaster that is happening now.

But France and Germany have workplace health insurance to help fund Health Services.

https://www.theguardian.com/healthca...germany-sweden

[nomadking]

From 2006.

The health secretary has today ordered NHS trusts to ensure they reach a budget surplus of £250 million in two years time.
Patricia Hewitt said trusts, which recorded a deficit of £520 million in April, should be able to balance their books by next March and end up with extra cash a year later.
She denied such efforts would damage patient care, saying hospitals could introduce more efficient working methods, such as moving more of their surgery to during the day.
"The productivity pot of gold, I've always called it - that is the way the NHS will give people much better and faster care, also better value for money," she told Today.
...
But the health secretary says she is not prepared to provide any more funds needed to support trusts while the accounting system changes, and will wait until the NHS is back in surplus before looking at the issue again.
Ms Hewitt said the RAB provided a "proper system of discipline" for trusts and said that it was not causing the overspending, but revealing it.

From 2008.

Of the 20 failing trusts, 16 of them ran up deficits in 2007/8, six of them have historical debts that they have failed to make sufficient progress in paying off, and three had poor management arrangements.

Out the 12 trusts that have been failing for three years, the Department of Health has also listed six of them as 'financially challenged' since 2005.

...
Experts said these six could not work their way out of trouble without outside help and should be considered for take-over or merger, with parts of them possibly being closed down.

Not sure how Worcestershire Mental Health Partnership NHS Trust would be affected by the influx and not back in 2005.

From 2006

The BBC News website examines why this is happening at a time when the health service is getting record amounts of money?
Nearly a third of NHS organisations failed to balance their books in 2005-6, leaving the NHS with a deficit of £512m.

So chucking money at it didn't solve it,

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

Bursaries being dropped hasn't helped with that plan...

Neither has nurses and doctors who've been trained at our expense swanning off to pastures new overseas or becoming agency nurses.

The NHS like any government run organisation is horrendously inefficient and doesn't operate in the most optimal way usually massively high levels of administration on very decent salaries. I haven't gone into any in depth research on the NHS but wouldn't be surprised if there are comparisons between it and the MOD which is an utter joke in terms of how its run with office workers outnumbering the frontline staff usually in bloated departments with hundreds if not thousands of staff more then is needed or good.

In relation to my local hospitals there's no way for me to highlight a huge issue two of them have without appearing racist and the problem is the asian community. I have witnessed more times then i can recall groups of relatives and friends surrounding staff and harassing them until they get what they want and it can go on for a while. I've seen staff reduced to tears because of the intimidation and it never stops at one staff member it's not uncommon to see three or four nurses and one or two doctors trying to appease the unhappy group and it just repeats and repeats.

I even asked two security guards at the main entrance to the royal infirmary last year why they were not intervening as one such group was physically pushing and screaming in the faces of two nurses only to be told they are instructed not to get involved because of the racism issue and that specially trained staff would deal with it. I know it's not a countrywide issue but in both the royal infirmary and the general hospital it's a regular incident day in and day out taking up staff and time that should not be lost in that way.

Closing any of the three hospitals would make a deteriorating situation even worse and would seriously hinder patient care and in that regard these closures will have a wider impact. Mine is one local aspect on how resources are wasted I'm guessing every area has identifiable wastage that cutting out would achieve more then just cut cut cut of services.