Teachers' union says cutting school holidays a 'recipe for chaos'

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

It's unpaid.

I thought most teachers were paid an annual salary, divided into twelve monthly payments?

Are you saying teachers* don't get paid over the summer break?

*I'm not including TAs and contract staff in this group

I needed school holidays to recover and regain equilibrium..otherwise I'd have cracked under the pressure..oh and those armchair teachers among you need to actually give the job a go to find out just how stressful the job is.It can be like herding cats at times.

I would also like to point out that a teacher is there to teach the students not to be a childminder at the beck and call of parents.

Our summer holiday is 7 weeks - there is no half term this week because the summer holiday starts earlier, so they just tack that week on to the summer. Then, once every 4 years for reasons I've still not understood, they add another week. Our kids are off for 8 weeks this summer. Now *that* is too long.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Hugh

I thought most teachers were paid an annual salary, divided into twelve monthly payments?

Are you saying teachers* don't get paid over the summer break?

*I'm not including TAs and contract staff in this group

The holidays are unpaid. Their salary is based around term time and split into 12.

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

It's unpaid.

Anyone who works under a contract that stipulates a salary with an overtime built in, is never doing unpaid work for their employer, unless they are getting fewer than their stipulated holiday days as a result, or doing more than the working time directive allows. Not sure which of these might apply to a teacher though, just saying that working on a day when the kids aren't there is not necessarily unpaid.

[Ignitionnet]

There is no overtime built in, genius, the directed hours are in theory the extent of the teacher's workload.

Loving the education experts who are clearly completely familiar with the teacher contracts weighing in. What would I know being married to a teacher and having actually read one of them?

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

There is no overtime built in, genius, the directed hours are in theory the extent of the teacher's workload.

Loving the education experts who are clearly completely familiar with the teacher contracts weighing in. What would I know being married to a teacher and having actually read one of them?

Wind your neck in ... the nature of my post should have been obvious, the phrase "Not sure which of these might apply to a teacher though" should have been a giveaway.

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

There is no overtime built in, genius, the directed hours are in theory the extent of the teacher's workload.

Loving the education experts who are clearly completely familiar with the teacher contracts weighing in. What would I know being married to a teacher and having actually read one of them?

Teachers are salaried over 12 months ,they get paid for the 13 weeks holiday ,it doesn't matter how you try to spin it .
The main problem in my opinion is that contracted hours are almost equal to term time which is a problem .Why can't teachers be contracted to work all year round with 5.6 minimum weeks holiday the same as everyone else ? That way they wouldn't be doing so much work out of hours .

Originally Posted by martyh

Teachers are salaried over 12 months ,they get paid for the 13 weeks holiday ,it doesn't matter how you try to spin it .
The main problem in my opinion is that contracted hours are almost equal to term time which is a problem .Why can't teachers be contracted to work all year round with 5.6 minimum weeks holiday the same as everyone else ? That way they wouldn't be doing so much work out of hours .

Work out of hours doesn't always require contact time with students eg lesson preparation,marking,reports,paperwork.In fact it's why we are supposed to have non contact time during our timetables but if staff are absent then contact time is lost in covering absent teachers classes.Increasing the contact time by reducing holiday periods will not allow for the above.

Originally Posted by Maggy J

Work out of hours doesn't always require contact time with students eg lesson preparation,marking,reports,paperwork.In fact it's why we are supposed to have non contact time during our timetables but if staff are absent then contact time is lost in covering absent teachers classes.Increasing the contact time by reducing holiday periods will not allow for the above.

Why can't teachers have contracts like everyone else ,at the moment they are contracted for 1265 hrs per 195 days a year with the extra clause saying that they must work such reasonable hours as to discharge their duties .Why can't teachers be contracted for lets say 40-45 hrs a week ,half that time will be for teaching in classrooms and the rest used for prep ,marking and training .If that happened then it make no difference to the teacher if the actual term time was changed

Originally Posted by martyh

Why can't teachers have contracts like everyone else ,at the moment they are contracted for 1265 hrs per 195 days a year with the extra clause saying that they must work such reasonable hours as to discharge their duties .Why can't teachers be contracted for lets say 40-45 hrs a week ,half that time will be for teaching in classrooms and the rest used for prep ,marking and training .If that happened then it make no difference to the teacher if the actual term time was changed

I think you missed my point about the fact that non contact time can and is used to cover absent staff.As 3 lesson periods are the usual quota for non contact time at the bottom of the hierarchy (it increases as you move up the promotional scale) then teachers are going to be working before,after school and weekends as well as during school holidays to get some teacher chores done.Some jobs cannot be done while teaching.

I often had to stay late because as an art,3D art and pottery teacher so I could mark student's work because I couldn't take it home to do so.

Originally Posted by Maggy J

I think you missed my point about the fact that non contact time can and is used to cover absent staff.As 3 lesson periods are the usual quota for non contact time at the bottom of the hierarchy (it increases as you move up the promotional scale) then teachers are going to be working before,after school and weekends as well as during school holidays to get some teacher chores done.Some jobs cannot be done while teaching.

I often had to stay late because as an art,3D art and pottery teacher so I could mark student's work because I couldn't take it home to do so.

Why have contact time different to other working time ? why not simply have working time for 40 -45 hrs a week that would cover teaching and prep work .It all seems overly and needlessly complicated to me.

Originally Posted by martyh

Why have contact time different to other working time ? why not simply have working time for 40 -45 hrs a week that would cover teaching and prep work .It all seems overly and needlessly complicated to me.

So are you suggesting that the students go home and we stay in school for part of the school working week?Because that's the only way it will work.

Plus what happens to after school activities.Drama club,art club,sports,detention? Will they be part of the 45 hrs a week?Or just be voluntary and unpaid.

Because that's basically how the system worked for years..WE got paid monthly even during school holidays and we gave of our time as and when directed and often at our own initiative.For example as an art teacher I had to set up after hours classes so students could come in and finish off course work on time for external exams.Same for the drama,music. Extra classes provided before school by the 'special needs' staff.

Education can't be and shouldn't be treated as a saleable commodity.

[Gavin78]

My wife has worked as a teaching assistant for about 18 years now. She says that 4 weeks wouldn't be enough time for teachers to do planning ready for the kids to start in September as they would lose about 2 weeks of the 4 prepping for September

Originally Posted by Maggy J

So are you suggesting that the students go home and we stay in school for part of the school working week?Because that's the only way it will work.

Yes ,why not ? Teachers are already in school when the pupils are at home doing prep work or whatever ,what's wrong with doing that work as part of the working week .I am confused as to why you think it so awful to be in school when the pupils are at home

Education can't be and shouldn't be treated as a saleable commodity.

Our education system is totally different now compared to what it was .We no longer require children to work on farms during harvest season so why the hell do the children need to be off for such long breaks.By spreading the terms out more evenly across the year and increasing the contracted hours required of teachers they would have more time to do stuff .Trying to cram a years worth of education into 195 days is ridiculous in this day and age .


Actually it's only 190 days as 5 of those days are non contact days