General : It seems VM have no monopoly on poor service...

A bit difficult getting a national high-speed network from a small independent company....

[kwikbreaks]

On ADSL the smaller ISPs do give better CS and TS but of course sitting behind them are Openreach and BTw. Sky can bypass BTw which is why technically they usually walk all over most BTw based ISPs but the virtually unaccountable monopoly that is Openreach is still there to screw things up for some.

[Tim Deegan]

Originally Posted by Hugh

A bit difficult getting a national high-speed network from a small independent company....

I know...that's the problem.

If there was one, then I would use them. It seems the only regional comms company is Kingston Communications, but they are expensive, and I don't live in the right area anyway.

It would probably be better with smaller regional companies all using the same fibre network. And you could pick and choose who you used. Similar to gas and electricity.

---------- Post added at 16:28 ---------- Previous post was at 16:26 ----------

Originally Posted by kwikbreaks

On ADSL the smaller ISPs do give better CS and TS but of course sitting behind them are Openreach and BTw. Sky can bypass BTw which is why technically they usually walk all over most BTw based ISPs but the virtually unaccountable monopoly that is Openreach is still there to screw things up for some.

I understand that Sky have some of their own network. But don't they use BT's for most areas?

[kwikbreaks]

From what I've read about Kingston Communications you are very lucky indeed not to live in their area where they are in a monopoly position and provide poor services at high prices. Of course as that info was picked up on BB related forums where 90+% of the posts are moaning about the providers they may be brilliant but I somehow doubt that.

---------- Post added at 16:31 ---------- Previous post was at 16:29 ----------

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan

I understand that Sky have some of their own network. But don't they use BT's for most areas?

Sky have a very wide LLU presence. Where they can only offer BTw based services they are more expensive than their own and by all accounts pretty abysmal.

[Tim Deegan]

Originally Posted by kwikbreaks

From what I've read about Kingston Communications you are very lucky indeed not to live in their area where they are in a monopoly position and provide poor services at high prices. Of course as that info was picked up on BB related forums where 90+% of the posts are moaning about the providers they may be brilliant but I somehow doubt that.

That's what you get when they have the monopoly. Which is why it should be more like the gas and electric companies, where you can play them off against each other.

[qasdfdsaq]

How's that different to the crappy situation we have with Openreach now? We still have some company in charge of dealing with the physical infrastructure who may or may not be your supplier, and you still end up with pot luck as to whether they're any good or not in your area.

[Harryn9000]

i'm still waiting for them to put infinity in as the date keeps getting put back was april then beginning of june probaley gonna get put back again

[arcimedes]

Originally Posted by qasdfdsaq

How's that different to the crappy situation we have with Openreach now? We still have some company in charge of dealing with the physical infrastructure who may or may not be your supplier, and you still end up with pot luck as to whether they're any good or not in your area.

I think what is needed is to use the same model as for gas & electricity and to have one company responsible for the network i.e hive off Openreach into a separate company. We might then see some improvement in service.

[qasdfdsaq]

Openreach *is* a separate company, and apparently that's the problem.

[kwikbreaks]

The real problem IMO is that Openreach is not public facing - that means you as the end user can't directly arrange appointments or call then to book for no shows and the like.

I'd already seen there were no-show reports in the BT community forum and said what I'd probably do if I suffered one. It amazes me that people like the one who has had 4 no shows costing him money he can't afford in lost wages hasn't taken a JCB to their cabinets - I think I'd have been tempted to. I'm fortytwo on that board.

[qasdfdsaq]

This is why I always request appointments on Saturdays.

[arcimedes]

Originally Posted by qasdfdsaq

Openreach *is* a separate company, and apparently that's the problem.

Yes but its still owned by BT group and needs to be independent of any one telecommunuications company.

[qasdfdsaq]

They're required by law to operate independently

[kwikbreaks]

Yep - this was all part of the Ofcom (?) master plan to introduce competition into the landline market.

It worked reasonably well for ADSL as there are lots of exchanges which house non-BT ADSL DSLAMs but for the local loop it's rather different as there is still a monopoly on that and it certainly shows. The only regulatory requirement is that Openreach operates independently and does not favour any phone or broadband provider. It does the latter admirably delivering abysmal service to all.

[Chrysalis]

Originally Posted by kwikbreaks

The real problem IMO is that Openreach is not public facing - that means you as the end user can't directly arrange appointments or call then to book for no shows and the like.

I'd already seen there were no-show reports in the BT community forum and said what I'd probably do if I suffered one. It amazes me that people like the one who has had 4 no shows costing him money he can't afford in lost wages hasn't taken a JCB to their cabinets - I think I'd have been tempted to. I'm fortytwo on that board.

That and that they also cant subsidise from other parts of BT.

When I first moved into this property the line was still tagged as bulldog from the previous tenant, under the current rules I would be screwed some what. Back then there was a hotline to ring up BT wholesale to remove the tag, but that got removed. Ofcom have gone over the top to create a artifical competition.

We also have the traffic shaping situation, the original pricing was for BT to charge more for higher speeds but it did allow for more downloading, ofcom wanted higher takeup but BT needed to protect their profits, so down came the prices for speeds (the premium for speed was actually effectively removed 8mbit port same as 512kbit port) but to compensate BT up the prices went for traffic backhaul. That led to supercheap adsl services which has in turn led to VM selling it cheap pile them high as well and todays poorer quality broadband market.

It seems I am stuck with VM now until at least the end of the year unless I move, and I now also need upload speed but VM due to lack of planning it seems cant provide 10mbit upload (ideally I want more tho) so I am in limbo until this country gets itself in the 21st century on broadband tech.

It also wouldnt surprise me if VM have made a deal with ofcom, conveniantly their bottom tier package is now above the superfast broadband threshold for the government so this is going to sigificantly boost figures for that.