The Welfare Reform Bill is almost law

[colin25]

I am one of the undecided.

I see how some genuinely in need will suffer, but equally i look at some who are supported by benefits, and I wonder why.

I don't think everyone has a right to a child, if you can't support that child. To choose to bring a child into the world, you must be able to support that child.

[Alan Fry]

Originally Posted by Sirius

Are you going to say something different for once instead of spamming in every thread with the same statement.

The same statment applies to anything that helps keep up the rich and the system they created!

How can you get people into work, when there are hardly any decents jobs around!!

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

The same statment applies to anything that helps keep up the rich and the system they created!

How can you get people into work, when there are hardly any decents jobs around!!

What has the number of available jobs got to with keeping people on disability benefits when they shouldn't be, or paying out ridiculous amounts to people with kids.

Define 'decent' jobs? How many of the people you are talking about would be able, never mind willing, to do those 'decent' jobs. Who would do the 'indecent' jobs, that still need doing.

[Taf]

Originally Posted by colin25

I see how some genuinely in need will suffer, but equally i look at some who are supported by benefits, and I wonder why.

Every system will have weak spots that some will take advantage of, especially if those administering the system are of low morale or are given conflicting instruction from above their pay grade.

Originally Posted by colin25

I don't think everyone has a right to a child, if you can't support that child. To choose to bring a child into the world, you must be able to support that child.

The trouble comes when the parent(s) become involuntarily unemployed, whether for the short or long term. Losing your job through redundancy is not the same as having to leave your job to care for a disabled or infirm member of the immediate family that no-one else will care for.That is why the benefits system must remain as a safety net AFAIC.

Tarring all on benefits with the same brush is idiotic, as each case will probably be different, so no one set of rules will be fair and compassionate.

[Derek]

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

How can you get people into work, when there are hardly any decents jobs around!!

There are plenty of jobs around. Why do you think so many people from Eastern Europe decided to come here? If someone whose first language isn't English, so immediately is at a disadvantage, can get a job fairly easily why do you think that is?

Is it A-all employers secretly hate British people or B-they tend to take jobs that some see as beneath them and won't work for it when they are paid the same, or in some cases more, for being unemployed.

[Taf]

Originally Posted by Derek

There are plenty of jobs around. Why do you think so many people from Eastern Europe decided to come here?

From personal experience:

A. because our welfare system appears very lucrative to many.

B. because contracts are being bid for by Eastern European bosses, and if they win the contract, they then import workers from Eastern Europe.

C. because workers from further east have now displaced them in their own countries.

[Alan Fry]

Originally Posted by nomadking

What has the number of available jobs got to with keeping people on disability benefits when they shouldn't be, or paying out ridiculous amounts to people with kids.

Define 'decent' jobs? How many of the people you are talking about would be able, never mind willing, to do those 'decent' jobs. Who would do the 'indecent' jobs, that still need doing.

The number of jobs affects how many people can get off benefits and into work!

Also the disabled cannot help if they cannot get back into work, especially of they are paying the price for the rich and benefit cheats!

This affects Families of all times!

No one complains about the handout's government gives to businesses and the rich!

A decent job is where you get a decent wage, benefits and pension, also the job is rewarding as well!

---------- Post added at 14:10 ---------- Previous post was at 14:09 ----------

Originally Posted by Derek

There are plenty of jobs around. Why do you think so many people from Eastern Europe decided to come here? If someone whose first language isn't English, so immediately is at a disadvantage, can get a job fairly easily why do you think that is?

Is it A-all employers secretly hate British people or B-they tend to take jobs that some see as beneath them and won't work for it when they are paid the same, or in some cases more, for being unemployed.

Those job are not decent jobs, also we need to CREATE decent job, not move people into them!

[colin25]

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

A decent job is where you get a decent wage, benefits and pension, also the job is rewarding as well!

---------- Post added at 14:10 ---------- Previous post was at 14:09 ----------



Those job are not decent jobs, also we need to CREATE decent job, not move people into them!

Sorry, rewarding job is not a good criteria..but agree with a reasonable wage...reasonable pension...not sure about benefits

Just thinking..if you mean...benefits = something from your work extra...then working for virgin and getting cheap broadband sounds ok..but working for a poo company..and getting to take some home..not so good

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by colin25

Sorry, rewarding job is not a good criteria..but agree with a reasonable wage...reasonable pension...not sure about benefits

Just thinking..if you mean...benefits = something from your work extra...then working for virgin and getting cheap broadband sounds ok..but working for a poo company..and getting to take some home..not so good

Define reasonable wage etc. That is going to different for different people(ie single, married, with children, drinker, smoker, etc). Raise the income levels and yet more people will come to this country.

[colin25]

Not trying to define..but i view reasonable wage as being enough to live on.

That will vary...but having been in a crappy paying job..and a reasonable paying job..I know definition to me.

And you aren't forced to drink, smoke, marry, have children..etc

You are forced to eat, sleep and drink water...after that..it becomes a choice..more money you get...more choices you make

For me...sky tv..broadband

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by colin25

Not trying to define..but i view reasonable wage as being enough to live on.

That will vary...but having been in a crappy paying job..and a reasonable paying job..I know definition to me.

And you aren't forced to drink, smoke, marry, have children..etc

You are forced to eat, sleep and drink water...after that..it becomes a choice..more money you get...more choices you make

For me...sky tv..broadband

So the amount paid in JSA, HB, & CTB covers it?

[colin25]

Who is talking about JSA, HB & CTB

I said a reasonable wage...for doing work

I didn't comment on benefits...my comment was on the previous comment about a decent job etc made by Alan Fry

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by colin25

Who is talking about JSA, HB & CTB

I said a reasonable wage...for doing work

I didn't comment on benefits...my comment was on the previous comment about a decent job etc made by Alan Fry

You were the one that used the phrase 'enough to live on'.

[colin25]

Originally Posted by nomadking

You were the one that used the phrase 'enough to live on'.

And you misconstued it to mean JSA etc..not me...so your point is what?

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by colin25

And you misconstued it to mean JSA etc..not me...so your point is what?

I said the 'amount paid in JSA', not JSA itself. By definition JSA is meant to be 'enough to live on', therefore by your own reasoning the same amount is a 'reasonable wage as being enough to live on'. What then is the definition of a 'reasonable wage'?