Virgin Media Security v10 - Page 2

KenK · 09-11-2011, 21:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by djfunkdup

Thanks Nopanic got the information from your link

Hmm. The section from that link on the paid-for bit seems to me to contain only vague marketing-speak statements. For example, "Identity+ gives you more control over your sensitive files and when your personal data is transmitted." - it sounds good, but more control than what, and how does it work?

AndyCalling · 09-11-2011, 22:36

As bugs are discovered, MS fix them with patches. Bugs are a different issue and not what these third party security systems are trying to fix. I don't think that VM or any third party would recommend that if I install their package I needn't install MS security patches through Windows Update as they are released.

The system has to have holes, ways in and out, ways to make things happen. It can be restricted as much as you like, but there is a trade off with usability. Sometimes it is best to keep the functionality and have a sentry watching the hole for illicit activity. After all, wouldn't your PC be even safer if you removed all the user logins? No pesky users increasing risk? Of course it would but, to maintain usefulness, using passwords to police entry is a better option.

I still see no reason why anyone would need to dump what comes with Windows and get in another option. Until I see a reason to shift from the default position I may as well not bother, if all these third party packages are trying to do is fix a problem that isn't there by replacing a wheel with a wheel then what's the point?

My only concern is that there is a reason that I'm missing, so I'm on the hunt for it.

Nopanic · 10-11-2011, 03:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyCalling

As bugs are discovered, MS fix them with patches. Bugs are a different issue and not what these third party security systems are trying to fix. I don't think that VM or any third party would recommend that if I install their package I needn't install MS security patches through Windows Update as they are released.

The system has to have holes, ways in and out, ways to make things happen. It can be restricted as much as you like, but there is a trade off with usability. Sometimes it is best to keep the functionality and have a sentry watching the hole for illicit activity. After all, wouldn't your PC be even safer if you removed all the user logins? No pesky users increasing risk? Of course it would but, to maintain usefulness, using passwords to police entry is a better option.

I still see no reason why anyone would need to dump what comes with Windows and get in another option. Until I see a reason to shift from the default position I may as well not bother, if all these third party packages are trying to do is fix a problem that isn't there by replacing a wheel with a wheel then what's the point?

My only concern is that there is a reason that I'm missing, so I'm on the hunt for it.

No anti virus comes with windows ..

kwikbreaks · 10-11-2011, 06:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Ewww ISP provided security suite *shudder*

Well you can get worse - Trusteer Rapport as peddled by several online banking services. Almost rammed down your throat on every login with no way to permanently bypass the nagging.

Milambar · 10-11-2011, 06:15

Its true that none "come with" windows, but Microsoft does make a rather good one (suprisingly) which is a free download with free updates, to anyone with a valid registered copy of Windows. It's called Microsoft Security Essentials.

To most people this is the one they mean when they say "comes with windows".

Peter_ · 10-11-2011, 07:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milambar

Its true that none "come with" windows, but Microsoft does make a rather good one (suprisingly) which is a free download with free updates, to anyone with a valid registered copy of Windows. It's called Microsoft Security Essentials.

To most people this is the one they mean when they say "comes with windows".

I use that on my own machine and my daughters, it does the job.

Milambar · 10-11-2011, 11:48

I use it myself on my laptops. It does the job very well actually. Its one of the few Microsoft products I'm actually impressed with.

mark1234 · 10-11-2011, 11:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenMcr

Additionally VM Security 10 includes Parental Controls which aren't included in Microsoft Security Essentials

MS provide Windows Live Family Safety for free.

http://fss.live.com

BenMcr · 10-11-2011, 11:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark1234

MS provide Windows Live Family Safety for free.

http://fss.live.com

Yes I know, but that's a seperate download

As I said before, it's all about a choice

AndyCalling · 10-11-2011, 14:08

It is not all about choice for me, since choice implies some kind of rational decision based on fact and I have precious little of that in this situation so I have found no reason as yet for alternatives to the standard Windows software to exist.

These MS utilities are all inclusive in the fee one pays for Windows. OK, so you have to download a file from MS to activate them (like you do with ie9 or with other MS patches and updates) but they are clearly a part of Windows. Who doesn't immediately go to MS after buying Windows to download the essential updates? To claim these are not part of Windows may be arguable but is kind of beside the point.

I still need to understand what MS Windows doesn't do that the third party utilities do do, so I can make a real choice.

BenMcr · 10-11-2011, 14:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyCalling

I still need to understand what MS Windows doesn't do that the third party utilities do do, so I can make a real choice.

The basic version of VMS doesn't do anything more than what you can piece together with Microsoft alternatives

That's not the point of it. There are plenty of people that don't do what you do and immediately download an AV program.

As suggesting VMS install is part of broadband activation, it's there to give those people that don't know or think about security an apportunity to be protected as soon as they go online

kwikbreaks · 10-11-2011, 14:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenMcr

There are plenty of people that don't do what you do and immediately download an AV program.

These days you get prompted and nagged continually by Windows to install an AV product of some sort or other if you don't have one and as you said the standard Windows install doesn't come with one. There are plenty of well respected free AV products around - Avast, Avira, and AVG (not so well regarded these days) to name a few as well as MSE which, as it happens, is what I use too having tried a lot of others at one time or another.

I don't know what the VM security suite does but I guess it's an alternative to stuff already out there and it's free. I doubt I'll try it though TBH.

Nopanic · 10-11-2011, 15:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyCalling

It is not all about choice for me, since choice implies some kind of rational decision based on fact and I have precious little of that in this situation so I have found no reason as yet for alternatives to the standard Windows software to exist.

These MS utilities are all inclusive in the fee one pays for Windows. OK, so you have to download a file from MS to activate them (like you do with ie9 or with other MS patches and updates) but they are clearly a part of Windows. Who doesn't immediately go to MS after buying Windows to download the essential updates? To claim these are not part of Windows may be arguable but is kind of beside the point.

I still need to understand what MS Windows doesn't do that the third party utilities do do, so I can make a real choice.

I don't argue that m$ security is good, but it is certainly not classed as a part of windows. Else it would come with windows.

It is an add on the same as any other software. You decide to trust m$ which is your choice.

Different people have different needs and understandings and this gives them an extra option for security. Trend will pick up virus m$ doesn't and the other way around.. Pick your weapon ..

mark1234 · 10-11-2011, 15:55

Windows 8 will include MSE functionality as part of an improved Windows Defender.

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2...m-malware.aspx

Nopanic · 10-11-2011, 17:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark1234

Windows 8 will include MSE functionality as part of an improved Windows Defender.

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2...m-malware.aspx

Then it will be classed as unfair and a monopoly so they'll be forced like with IE to offer alternatives