Villagers fight back

[Angua]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

They install utilities... hrmm... I would suspect 'steal' is a better word given that only utilities companies can actually install them.

Needs a change in the law if the police can't stop it. Ridiculous the suggestion that they can go onto land they don't own and tarmac it like this. I refuse to believe it's legal for them to tap the electricity and water supplies like this. If it is legal it's crazy.

---------- Post added at 14:28 ---------- Previous post was at 14:18 ----------



Interesting that you seem to think you know the right thing for everyone.

Being travellers surely they can travel. I would have thought that if they can afford to come into an area with heavy machinery, attack the countryside and steal utilities they can afford to rent pitches where they are available.

If there are none available where they want to be they'll have to do what the rest of us do if we can't live where we want to and go somewhere else. It's not society's job to accommodate the need for 'clans' to live apart and again it doesn't excuse their actions.

One rule for one and one for others isn't acceptable, but it's what you are suggesting, that society shape itself around their wants and desires. Doesn't work that way. This ignoring that what they are trying to do is quite simply illegal.

Thing is, IF pitches are in sensible places it gives the police and neighbourhoods more power to move them on. Ignoring things and doing nothing just causes more aggravation and expense. Surely it is better to have them paying their way like the rest of society. Privately run sites tend to stick to the clan & satellite families. Council run sites take all & sundry with waiting times far in excess of those on the housing list due to the extreme shortage of pitches nationally.

Originally Posted by Angua

Thing is, IF pitches are in sensible places it gives the police and neighbourhoods more power to move them on. Ignoring things and doing nothing just causes more aggravation and expense. Surely it is better to have them paying their way like the rest of society. Privately run sites tend to stick to the clan & satellite families. Council run sites take all & sundry with waiting times far in excess of those on the housing list due to the extreme shortage of pitches nationally.

do they really ?

[Angua]

Originally Posted by martyh

do they really ?

I can only go by those families of travellers we have locally.

The reason councils have more power to evict if they have pitches available it the judge can clearly see there is a suitable place for them to go to. The eviction will be granted quickly as the travellers have lost the excuse of no where else to go.

Originally Posted by martyh

do they really ?

Look generalisations aren't fair and you know that.Some travellers really are decent people who pay their way.Some are not but there is no need to claim that all are the latter.

It's like saying all old people are senile or that all teenagers are thugs or all unemployed are workshy or that all Scottish people are tight with money.It's a sweeping generalisation to say any of those thing..

Originally Posted by Angua

I can only go by those families of travellers we have locally.

The reason councils have more power to evict if they have pitches available it the judge can clearly see there is a suitable place for them to go to. The eviction will be granted quickly as the travellers have lost the excuse of no where else to go.

i was commenting on the "paying their way like the rest of society" you made

if they pay income tax ,national insurance ,council tax and all the other basic living expenses that i and the majority of people pay then i am happy for the LA's to build sites for them if not then they can go sing

[Ramrod]

In SE London the police call them 'Doers' short for 'Do as you likeys'...... Pikeys.....

[the_neurotic_cat]

At the rate things are going we'll all be living like travellers in the next few decades. The only difference will be that they travel in caravans whereas we'll be moving house constantly to be around any available jobs.

Then everyone will be strangers to everyone else and the only consistent community we'll have are things like this ... internet forums and social networking.

I have a feeling that mental health and probation will be a good career choice in the future.

[Angua]

Originally Posted by martyh

i was commenting on the "paying their way like the rest of society" you made

if they pay income tax ,national insurance ,council tax and all the other basic living expenses that i and the majority of people pay then i am happy for the LA's to build sites for them if not then they can go sing

This is what does happen when sites are built & run by the council (often why council run sites are more popular & have long waiting lists).

The local schools also benefit by having traveller children who in turn get an education. Opportunities they wouldn't get if they are constantly moved on. At least the traveller families are UK citizens who go round the country harvesting, rather than having to import staff to pick fruit & veg.

[beeman]

Im guessing some of the posters in here didnt actually read the story. They just saw travelers and started ranting. In this case just like in the VAST majority of cases the travelers actually do OWN the land in question they didnt "steel" the land from anyone they brought it a few months earlier. They also dont steel services like what was suggested earlier. generally when they take these sites on the first thing they do is install the piping for the services upto the property boundy then contact the services providers to install. MOST travelers DO indeed pay tax (both council and income). In this case the ONLY offense committed it changing the use of a property without appropriate planning permission (Though they have applied for the permission they started the work before securing said permission, something which they unlikely to get because the NIMBY's would never allow it).

What most people dont seem to understand is the difference between a "traveler" and a "pikey". The former tends to move between fixed pitches (where available and only occasionally set up on unused land (when theres no space available)).

BTW im not a traveler but i do know a couple who have lived in the site just up the road from me for the last 2 years.

[papa smurf]

Steel is an alloy consisting mostly of iron, with a carbon content between 0.2% and 2.1% by weight, depending on the grade.

oh and they nick that as well .

Thing that goads me is presumably, the sites that they live on, around here anyway, have skips etc left and emptied at regular intervals, a service that I pay a thing called council tax for, yet they get it for free.
If I did not pay my council tax with the excuse that the travellers do not pay why should I ? the court would still issue a liablility order.
Is there something not right ?

[danielf]

Originally Posted by beeman

they didnt "steel" the land from anyone they brought it a few months earlier.

You've got to admire their determination.

[Derek]

Originally Posted by beeman

In this case the ONLY offense committed it changing the use of a property without appropriate planning permission (Though they have applied for the permission they started the work before securing said permission, something which they unlikely to get because the NIMBY's would never allow it).

I think most people are upset because this is a fairly regular pattern of behaviour. Secure a plot of land, tee up loads of building supplies, drop in a planning application at the last minute on a Friday bank holiday weekend then start the work knowing full well once its started it'll be a hellish job for the council to evict them or get the work reversed.

[Escapee]

Around here the council sold the site because they failed to control it. They built them a nice shower and toilet block, and in turn many connected up their cables to obtain free electric.

Before the sale, it was rumoured that every pitch had rent in long term arrears. The question was asked of the Labour council by an independent councillor, but the council refused to separate the figures from the rest of the arrears figures. The result was that the level of rent arrears owed by the dwellers was hidden from the local council tax payer.

My father did some driving for a local company who had a contract with the local tax inspectors office. On more than one occasion he was asked by the inspector to be taken to an address, when he explained that it was the local travellers site the inspectors would cross that one off the list.

The fact that in Cardiff the Police used to give the ones on Rover Way at least 24 hours notice if they had a warrant to search the site says it all.

[Dai]

Originally Posted by danielf

You've got to admire their determination.

They obviously have big wheelbarrows..