End of the Special Relationship

Well have you ever known the US be prepared to lend one of their fleet carriers before as they were prepared to do during the falklands conflict to the UK??. I think there was a far warmer relationship between reagan and thatcher then there had been since maybe churchill and roosevelt during the second world war. Either way doesn't change the fact that for the last decade we have been little more then a poodle for the US adding legitimacy to their questionable actions.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

Well have you ever known the US be prepared to lend one of their fleet carriers before as they were prepared to do during the falklands conflict to the UK??.

and yet Sir John Nott said

As John Nott, the defence secretary at the time, wrote, the Americans "were very, very far from being on our side".

I think there was a far warmer relationship between reagan and thatcher then there had been since maybe churchill and roosevelt during the second world war.

Indeed the relationship was so warm he lied to her about invading a Commonwealth country. Seems to me we only have a relationship on the proviso that we toe their line.

[frogstamper]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

and yet Sir John Nott said

As John Nott, the defence secretary at the time, wrote, the Americans "were very, very far from being on our side".



Indeed the relationship was so warm he lied to her about invading a Commonwealth country. Seems to me we only have a relationship on the proviso that we toe their line.

OOooh don't say that it may ruin the Thatcher fantasy for some.

---------- Post added at 02:09 ---------- Previous post was at 02:05 ----------

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

Blair would have said yes where would you like me to put our troops and thacther would have told him to take a long walk off a short cliff. Not a hard one to answer there and in thatchers time it could be argued we had the better end of whatever special relationship there was although after that we certainly had the brown end of the stick.

Thatcher was just as much an Atlantacist as Blair was, if the call had come from the US to help them fight communism she would have been as eager as Blair would have been...strangely she did have some flaws Rizzy!!

I have never said she didn't Froggie but she did put this country first and in her mind at least did what she believed to be best for this country. Didn't always get it right but at least she tried unlike half the lilly livered gits we have these days who would sell us all down the river for a new trough to get their snout in. As for john nott i wouldn't trust him if he told me the sky was blue and the grass was green.

But this is something that can go on forever and a day because there are those who can see what she did without bias seeing both good and bad and those who see only the negative they hold her fully responsible for never remembering seemingly why she had to do some of the stuff she did mainly the previous government and their fantastic handling of the country and it's finances.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

But this is something that can go on forever and a day because there are those who can see what she did without bias seeing both good and bad and those who see only the negative they hold her fully responsible for never remembering seemingly why she had to do some of the stuff she did mainly the previous government and their fantastic handling of the country and it's finances.

and yet the worse excesses of her reign can at the end of her tenure so trying to blame the previous government is like Labour trying to blame the tories for the mess now, it was and is complete tosh.

Yes poll tax was a complete total and utter mess and i ended up in court over it as i was one of the many who opposed it. But most of the things she is most hated for seem to be down quite a bit to action that needed to be taken because of the previous government. Who had allowed the unions to gain great power and dictate policy to the point where they could bring the country to a halt on a whim. Economic mess which by todays standards wasn't too bad but back then needed severe action. No one is saying she was perfect she wasn't not by a long way but she wasn't as bad as some constantly paint her and given what we have had for the past thirteen years she looks even better and that is where some have the problem.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

and yet the worse excesses of her reign can at the end of her tenure so trying to blame the previous government is like Labour trying to blame the tories for the mess now, it was and is complete tosh.

True whereas New Labour started rotten and only got worse..

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

But most of the things she is most hated for seem to be down quite a bit to action that needed to be taken because of the previous government.

I think the hatred of her grows everytime some one opens a utility bill, buys a rail card or tries to find some where affordable to rent....

Yes, because the BT service was so wonderful, and we haven't seen 13 years of Labour Government repeal the Right-To-Buy legislation (in fact, weren't they behind the ALMOs?).............

Anyhoo, not really relevant to the "special relationship"

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by foreverwar

Yes, because the BT service was so wonderful, and we haven't seen 13 years of Labour Government repeal the Right-To-Buy legislation.............

Anyhoo, not really relevant to the "special relationship"

Your right we haven't seen 13 years of a Labour government, we have seen 13 years of a Tory lite government that has achieved nothing despite having an unprecedented mandate to undo the worst of Thatcherism.

[frogstamper]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

Yes poll tax was a complete total and utter mess and i ended up in court over it as i was one of the many who opposed it. But most of the things she is most hated for seem to be down quite a bit to action that needed to be taken because of the previous government. Who had allowed the unions to gain great power and dictate policy to the point where they could bring the country to a halt on a whim. Economic mess which by todays standards wasn't too bad but back then needed severe action. No one is saying she was perfect she wasn't not by a long way but she wasn't as bad as some constantly paint her and given what we have had for the past thirteen years she looks even better and that is where some have the problem.

Just as a side note Rizzy it wasn't only sunny Jim's government who caved in to over powerful unions, prior to this Ted had done exactly the same, as had governments of every colour going back to the war.
Politicians of this age had seen the utter misery and degradation of mass unemployment in the 1930's, and consequently were almost single minded in their efforts not to let this happen again.
It was only when Thatcher came along in a period of strife she was able and willing to take on the unions, most reasonable people would agree I think that unions in the 60's and 70's were very militant and that changes needed to happen.
Where I split with this though is the way Thatcher went about it, she had an almost messianic glee about what she was doing irrespective of the massive social costs her policies incurred, don't forget it was her who said that "unemployment was a price worth paying".
Personally I believe that had we not had the Falklands war she would have been voted out in the 83 election, albeit had there been a credible Labour party at the time.
Either way hopefully both Tory and Labour have moved on and nowadays neither want to emulate their predecessors of yesteryear....as much as some on both sides would like to.

[TheDaddy]

Some quite interesting thoughts here

[TheDaddy]

Good to hear what Obama really thinks of us, it just confirmed what I thought, that he doesn't like us that much

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ravate-me.html

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Good to hear what Obama really thinks of us, it just confirmed what I thought, that he doesn't like us that much

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ravate-me.html

Seems to be more Cameron he doesn't like. Never knew he was such a good judge of character.