Anthrax alert for addicts

Originally Posted by martyh

Would you be happy if you or a family member were denied treatment i.e hip replacement because money had to be diverted to save the life of a addict who in all probability will die anyway from overdose or related illness

I'm not sure how you would ever demonstrate such a black-and-white example of cause and effect like that.

As it happens, my mum has been riven with arthritis for years and has more artificial joints than a cyberman. She's in for another one next month. Despite the scare stories pushed by certain sections of the Press, I think our NHS works reasonably well and quite equitably.

I have a friend who had a heart attack a couple of years ago due in all likelihood to too much red meat and red wine. The bloke in the bed next to him most likely suffered his heart attack due to too many fish suppers. That's just Glasgow for you. But how do you decide who's worth treating and who isn't? One's a higher rate taxpayer, the other may well have drawn more dole than he's ever paid in tax. Is one worth saving based on contribution to society, and the other better off (for the rest of us) if allowed to die?

Similarly with drug addicts: everyone's story is different. You can't make decisions about people's lives based on blunt categories like 'drug user' or 'bad diet'. If you want to ration healthcare in that way you need to know a lot more about the individual, perhaps what they've done to try to help themselves. That in itself is a moral minefield, and a very good reason why we don't ration health in that way.

[AHN-David]

Hey,

I have been affected by the desperate criminal junkie thats why I have the views I have.

But like you said many people try to come off heroin. That green stuff is not the answer anyway. I see them given that to each other and selling it.

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by Russ

I'm not looking for sympathy, just slightly more understanding. The stereotyped view of a herion junkie as desperate criminal with no cares in the world other than their own is outdated and wildly inaccurate.

There are many who are desperate to come off the stuff but don't have the ability to succeed on their own. The support should be there for anyone who needs it.

Then we have to include rapists/paedos/women beaters.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Russ

I'm not looking for sympathy, just slightly more understanding. The stereotyped view of a herion junkie as desperate criminal with no cares in the world other than their own is outdated and wildly inaccurate.

There are many who are desperate to come off the stuff but don't have the ability to succeed on their own. The support should be there for anyone who needs it.

local chemists are full of [locally we call them smack heads or scags]addicts getting their daily dose of methadone ,trouble is they allso put any other crap they can get hold of into their system ,imo if this is to be addressed properly addicts need to be taken into specialist units until they are free of dependency
and if the cure hurts then maybe they wont go down that avenue again .

Originally Posted by Chris

I'm not sure how you would ever demonstrate such a black-and-white example of cause and effect like that.

As it happens, my mum has been riven with arthritis for years and has more artificial joints than a cyberman. She's in for another one next month. Despite the scare stories pushed by certain sections of the Press, I think our NHS works reasonably well and quite equitably.

I have a friend who had a heart attack a couple of years ago due in all likelihood to too much red meat and red wine. The bloke in the bed next to him most likely suffered his heart attack due to too many fish suppers. That's just Glasgow for you. But how do you decide who's worth treating and who isn't? One's a higher rate taxpayer, the other may well have drawn more dole than he's ever paid in tax. Is one worth saving based on contribution to society, and the other better off (for the rest of us) if allowed to die?

Similarly with drug addicts: everyone's story is different. You can't make decisions about people's lives based on blunt categories like 'drug user' or 'bad diet'. If you want to ration healthcare in that way you need to know a lot more about the individual, perhaps what they've done to try to help themselves. That in itself is a moral minefield, and a very good reason why we don't ration health in that way.

All very true but i'm afraid my own personal example has left me very jaded towards drug addicts hence the lack of sympathy .Having said that if i came across someone lying in the street in desperate need of medical attention i would not ask them first if they were a drug addict before phoning for a ambulance ....i'm not that bad

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Gary L

Then we have to include rapists/paedos/women beaters.

Are they phyically addicted?

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by Russ

Are they phyically addicted?

Is heroin a physical or mental addiction?

[Russ]

Both

Originally Posted by Russ

I'm not looking for sympathy, just slightly more understanding. The stereotyped view of a herion junkie as desperate criminal with no cares in the world other than their own is outdated and wildly inaccurate.

There are many who are desperate to come off the stuff but don't have the ability to succeed on their own. The support should be there for anyone who needs it.

the help is there Russ ,plenty of it,it's the ones who don't help themselves that i've no sympathy for .They disrupt the efforts of ones who genuinely do and use up valuable rescources which should go elswere
and yes you are absolutely correct about the outdated stereotype ,in my case my sister-in-law became addicted to speed then cocain ,drink you name it ,she was married 3 kids reasonable job ,reasonable house nothing flash just ordinary .
She ended up going into a state rehab clinic losing the kids ,living with us for 12months when she got kicked out of rehab then put back in rehab kicked out again ,rehoused courtesy of the state, fell pregnant again had that one removed by the father (whoever he was)more treatment (by this time i didn't care what)another kid ..and on it goes
sympathy ..not likely

[Russ]

Originally Posted by martyh

the help is there Russ ,plenty of it,it's the ones who don't help themselves that i've no sympathy for .They disrupt the efforts of ones who genuinely do and use up valuable rescources which should go elswere

Now that's a response I can respect a little more rather than a complete "leave them die, it's their own fault" attitude.

[AHN-David]

What else do you epxect us to say Russ?

I am very sorry someone put a belt round your arm and put a needle in it. It is obviously there own fault.

You don't take drugs if you dont want to. Nothing makes you take drugs unless you WANT to.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by AHN-David

What else do you epxect us to say Russ?

I am very sorry someone put a belt round your arm and put a needle in it. It is obviously there own fault.

You don't take drugs if you dont want to. Nothing makes you take drugs unless you WANT to.

On that basis I'm assuming anyone you know who gets cancer as a result of smoking should be denied treatment and allowed to die?

[AHN-David]

Thats up to the government. Smokings legal.

And they cant say for sure it was the smoking that gave them it. Everything gives you cancer these days.

---------- Post added at 14:42 ---------- Previous post was at 14:41 ----------

Plus who steals for fags?

Originally Posted by AHN-David

What else do you epxect us to say Russ?

I am very sorry someone put a belt round your arm and put a needle in it. It is obviously there own fault.

You don't take drugs if you dont want to. Nothing makes you take drugs unless you WANT to.

Seriously, I really, really hope you never make a serious, stupid mistake in your life. It sounds as if you'd have real trouble living with yourself afterwards.

[AHN-David]

Me making a mistake in life and taken drugs is a big difference.

Drugs are a massive massive no no. Don't know if any you guyz like them but I certainly don't.