The Equality Bill.

[broadbandking]

This is why some companies have levels for pay, so people with a months experience can't get the same wages as someone who has been there 10 years.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Flyboy

Perhaps it's only non-white women who are to be given equal pay? But I still don't know where the jump from, "gender pay audits," to "any large company must discriminate against whites in order to comply with the law," came from. Or maybe I'm not reading it right. Do the Nazis think that gender means colour? Or do they think that only non-white women work?

I think the OP that you refer to, used two quotes from the same source, but as the second quote started 'In effect', it gave the appearance(well, to those too prejudiced) of linking the two paragraphs.

IIRC a TV news item showed in the US where a racial 'equality' policy was brought in, firms that were only slightly under the required percentages of racial groups of employees didn't get government contracts.

---------- Post added at 15:04 ---------- Previous post was at 14:42 ----------

Originally Posted by Flyboy

Experience does not equal ability nor value. I know lots of people who have been in their positions for a very long time, but are not very good at their jobs and I know a lot of people who have been in their jobs for a very short time, but are better. Take, for example, Lewis Hamilton and Heinz-Harald Frentzen. Heinz has been driving in Formula One for many years and not won anything significant, whereas Lewis won the championship in only his second season (should have done it his first, but hey-ho). Surely you don't expect Heinz to be paid more than Lewis.

Did I miss something in the bill, which said this only applies to women?

Experience means that you know the potential problems that can occur and how to solve them. There comes a point where further years of experience make little difference, but that point is not one month.

The Formula 1 analogy is a bit silly as it depends on the car that they are driving, experience gained in other driving categories, and whether you are 'allowed' to pass someone(Heidfeld?) on the final lap of the final race so that you can win the championship.

All previous mentions of this type of policy over the decades has involved comparing women's wages against men's wages, not the other way around.

Male refuse collectors in Leeds have had to go on strike because they are going to have their pay cut in order to match that of women who do different jobs. If the jobs are the same, why do so few(if any) women, do the refuse collecting jobs. As it can't be because they are not capable(after all, they are equal), it must be that they are too lazy.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by broadbandking

I must say I don't like living in England as our history is been deleted,

Then come and live in Wales perhaps? Our heritage is alive and well, and I don't think any of us feel like strangers in our own country.

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by Russ

Then come and live in Wales perhaps? Our heritage is alive and well, and I don't think any of us feel like strangers in our own country.

Do they speak English, or will we have to learn Welsh?

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I'm wondering which of you gentlemen would have survived the day I just had...Without being done for GBH....

[Flyboy]

Originally Posted by nomadking

I think the OP that you refer to, used two quotes from the same source, but as the second quote started 'In effect', it gave the appearance(well, to those too prejudiced) of linking the two paragraphs.

No, just checked. It is the same paragraph on the original statement on their website. There is no difference in the way it has been quoted by the OP. The article seems to equate "gender" with "colour."

IIRC a TV news item showed in the US where a racial 'equality' policy was brought in, firms that were only slightly under the required percentages of racial groups of employees didn't get government contracts.

I don't get why you raised the US bill and equated it to the one here. They are two completely different laws, in two completely different countries.

Experience means that you know the potential problems that can occur and how to solve them. There comes a point where further years of experience make little difference, but that point is not one month.

Nonsense. I have met people who have been in their jobs for decades and still don't know their arse from their elbows, whereas some young fresh employee runs rings around them. I am sure you have met some as well.

The Formula 1 analogy is a bit silly as it depends on the car that they are driving, experience gained in other driving categories, and whether you are 'allowed' to pass someone(Heidfeld?) on the final lap of the final race so that you can win the championship.

There is nothing wrong with the analogy. Frentzen has had many opportunities but didn't take them. That said, an analogy is not supposed to be a direct comparison, that is why they are called analogies and not direct comparisons. But it if it makes it easier, try Alonso and Hamilton, or Coulthard and Vettel, or Alonso and Schumacher.

All previous mentions of this type of policy over the decades has involved comparing women's wages against men's wages, not the other way around.

That is because women's incomes have forever, been woefully behind those of men's, or am I wrong?

But there is nothing in the legislation that says:

The comparison will only be made to raise female wages to meet male wages, but not to raise male wages to meet female wages

Male refuse collectors in Leeds have had to go on strike because they are going to have their pay cut in order to match that of women who do different jobs. If the jobs are the same, why do so few(if any) women, do the refuse collecting jobs. As it can't be because they are not capable(after all, they are equal), it must be that they are too lazy.

This is about the local authority finding an excuse to save a shed load of money and nothing to with equality at all.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Gary L

Do they speak English, or will we have to learn Welsh?

I have no idea. Find out for yourself.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Flyboy

I don't get why you raised the US bill and equated it to the one here. They are two completely different laws, in two completely different countries.

The TV news report was a UK(BBC2 Newsnight?) report on the impact of UK proposal as already implemented in the US.

Private companies bidding for Government contracts could be forced to promote women and ethnic minorities under Harriet Harman's controversial Equality Bill.

Firms will have to prove their commitment to the equal rights agenda to win taxpayer-funded work worth a total of more than £200billion, under the Bill in the Queen's Speech yesterday.

Miss Harman has suggested firms will be judged on criteria including the gender and race of their staff before being offered work by local authorities and Government bodies.

Originally Posted by Flyboy

Nonsense. I have met people who have been in their jobs for decades and still don't know their arse from their elbows, whereas some young fresh employee runs rings around them. I am sure you have met some as well.

Depends on the type of job and whether the person has had any similar experience in a previous job.

Originally Posted by Flyboy

That is because women's incomes have forever, been woefully behind those of men's, or am I wrong?

Are you comparing pay for the same jobs or for different jobs?

IIRC there was a recent case where women were going to be given backdated pay on the grounds of equality, but men who had been doing the same job as those women at the same original pay as them were not going to get the backdated money. This is a classic example of equality only being one-way traffic.
Found the story I was thinking of.

Another claim against the councils by low-paid women workers, including cleaners and dinner ladies, who were also not 'topped up', succeeded and they were awarded settlements. But the men had continued to be paid less than both the better-paid men and the women.

Any settlements for the men will be delayed as at least one council, South Tyneside, plans to appeal against the ruling by the Employment Appeal Tribunal at the High Court in London.

Originally Posted by Flyboy

This is about the local authority finding an excuse to save a shed load of money and nothing to with equality at all.

Council bosses say the new pay and grading structure has been drawn up to ensure the council meets equal pay legislation, which says people doing work assessed as being of equal value are paid the same.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by foreverwar

By "gender pay audits", I read it to mean that women and men should get the same pay for doing the same job - what could be wrong with that?

Nothing wrong with that on paper but everything this government touches results in tangled webs of bureaucracy, non jobs and red tape, this wont be any different, for instance what's the betting you have to have government snoopers doing your audit rather than the ones you already employ once a year.

---------- Post added at 17:40 ---------- Previous post was at 17:35 ----------

Originally Posted by Flyboy

Take, for example, Lewis Hamilton and Heinz-Harald Frentzen. Heinz has been driving in Formula One for many years and not won anything significant, whereas Lewis won the championship in only his second season (should have done it his first, but hey-ho). Surely you don't expect Heinz to be paid more than Lewis.

Don't really buy that argument, old Heinz Harald is already one of the best in the world at what he does or he wouldn't get a drive at all and if he had a car as good as Hamiltons he would surely have done significant things you know like Jenson Button this year, anyway I am not a fan of F1 so I'd prefer not to get drawn into a debate on it. Thanks

[Tezcatlipoca]

Originally Posted by Gary L

The BNP website.

The British National Party — Blog — Labour Announces Anti-White Law While Churches Warn of Christmas Ban

I thought that was rather obvious, & considered Flyboy's question to be rhetorical...

Originally Posted by broadbandking

Whilst the bill looks good on paper I can see the race thing been a big hit with non white people.
I see many different cultures get job where I work, the freeloaders who say they can't get a job is because they don't want to (all cultures do this)
I must say I don't like living in England as our history is been deleted, we are giving into other culture in case we are seen as racist, but this is our country we have laws and rules why should they be changed because another culture doesn't like it when they move here, simple soluation move back then.

I agree with the all sexs been equal, I never seen a black or asain or other race been turned down for a job because they aren't white, if this was happening we would see this all over the news.

If we moved to another country and tryed to change the laws then we would get told where to go, we should be like Austrila (they have right ideas)

How/when has our history been "deleted" in England?

How have we "given in" to other cultures?

Which laws and rules have been changed because "another culture" doesn't like them?

Originally Posted by nomadking

I think the OP that you refer to, used two quotes from the same source, but as the second quote started 'In effect', it gave the appearance(well, to those too prejudiced) of linking the two paragraphs.

...snippety snip snip.

"too prejudiced"

Or perhaps lacking the ability to mind-read, as there was no indication that the two quotes were not linked, and no link to the source - could you please explain how readers of the post were supposed to know the two lines weren't linked.


Addendum - just read flyboy's post of 16:43 and they were linked; I wonder whose prejudices are showing now?

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Flyboy

Perhaps it's only non-white women who are to be given equal pay? But I still don't know where the jump from, "gender pay audits," to "any large company must discriminate against whites in order to comply with the law," came from. Or maybe I'm not reading it right. Do the Nazis think that gender means colour? Or do they think that only non-white women work?

no white lady's do lunch.. white gentlemen do the work so that the lady's don't need to.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by foreverwar

"too prejudiced"

Or perhaps lacking the ability to mind-read, as there was no indication that the two quotes were not linked, and no link to the source - could you please explain how readers of the post were supposed to know the two lines weren't linked.


Addendum - just read flyboy's post of 16:43 and they were linked; I wonder whose prejudices are showing now?

So you think that most readers of that post would have thought that the two issues were closely connected? Surely the point of Flyboy's comment is that he(/she?) recognised that they were not connected in that manner and that is what they were complaining about, rather than contributing to the topic under discussion.

Flyboy's post post @ 16:43 simply says that the OP's website says the same thing. That doesn't preclude the possibility that the text on the website could be the result of cut and paste of two quotes without reading how the 2nd quote started. The fact that the text is in two separate paragraphs, in itself shows a change of subject.

Straws, grasping, etc etc.....

What about our rights as ENGLISHMEN?