letting you hair down

[idi banashapan]

work to live, don't live to work.....

you go to work to earn money that you can then spend on little (or large) luxuries, otherwise what on Earth are you aspiring too? you have to have a reason to want to earn money above simply paying bills.

it sounds like you don't socialise or have many friends, otherwise you would know how to have a good time. I doubt very much anyone gets together with friends in order to not have fun. maybe you need a little more confidence in yourself first.

get to know those at work on a more personal level, rather than purely professional (and i don't mean that in a rude way!!!! - unless you like someone in that way, of course!!). Start there, get to know what others like. you spend most part of your day with them, so you might as well know a bit more about who they actually are. once you feel a bit more confident around them, knowing what they like, where they live, what music they listen too, etc, then you can start to build on a common grounding. you know you can then talk to them about something they can relate to. same goes the other way round. tell them what you like so they feel more at ease around you.

once you start to build a rapport, then things wil just flow naturally. don't force freindships though. these are obvious and the more dominant in the 'friendship' (ie, the one who is not begging for friends) will often abuse the trust gained or take advantage of someones good nature, as the less dominant in the relationship will tend to go out of their own way in order to simply please the otehr just to retain the 'friendship'.

be yourself. relax. laugh. smile. not every conversation has to be about work. talk about an embarrassing situation you once found yourself in. people are naturally curious and will listen. once they realise that you are willing to make yourself look silly, but are big enough to make a funny story out of it, others will tend to accept you more readily, as you have proven that you are down to Earth. a real person who does have mishaps, if you will - not just that person at work who doesn't talk to anyone unless it's about work itself.

rapport is key, but don't force it. try reading up on neuro-linguistics and human psychology. it's a fascinating subject and I promise you will learn invaluable skills, even so far as manipulation of situations to favour your own objectives (eg, you want a promotion or are looking for a discount on something for sale). you'll get to learn how others work and will be able to spot trends and habits that certain people have, including body language and speech types, which you can then use to further strengthen your rapport.

[Welshchris]

if a member of staff told me that id slap them thinking they were taking the micky as im going bald

[Anonymouse]

Originally Posted by Bender

work to live, don't live to work.....

The exact opposite of what our bosses think. Some of them apparently don't believe we have lives outside the job...or even that we should.

Originally Posted by Bender

you go to work to earn money that you can then spend on little (or large) luxuries, otherwise what on Earth are you aspiring too? you have to have a reason to want to earn money above simply paying bills.

That depends on what you're earning; slightly more than £6 per hour doesn't give much scope for aspiration. Desperation, possibly. Perspiration, definitely, given that it's manual labour.

Originally Posted by Bender

it sounds like you don't socialise or have many friends, otherwise you would know how to have a good time. I doubt very much anyone gets together with friends in order to not have fun. maybe you need a little more confidence in yourself first.

Socialising on a 2pm - 10pm shift is next to impossible - plus by the end of the shift I'm too knackered even to think about going anywhere but home. I can have a good time...just not at work. I socialised all the time as a student...but I was pretty much guaranteed intelligent conversation back then. I've just returned from Redemption '09 (a Blake's 7/Babylon 5 convention), and as always I felt at home. The stuff we talk about at these cons, my workmates would look at me as if I'd gone strange, trust me.

Originally Posted by Bender

get to know those at work on a more personal level, rather than purely professional (and i don't mean that in a rude way!!!! - unless you like someone in that way, of course!!). Start there, get to know what others like. you spend most part of your day with them, so you might as well know a bit more about who they actually are. once you feel a bit more confident around them, knowing what they like, where they live, what music they listen too, etc, then you can start to build on a common grounding. you know you can then talk to them about something they can relate to. same goes the other way round. tell them what you like so they feel more at ease around you.

Good advice...but impossible. I have virtually nothing in common with them - I don't even belong there. I have a degree, for Einstein's sake. I put years of work into a long list of qualifications only to end up shifting flatpack and the like in a bloody warehouse...precisely the sort of job I was doing all that to avoid. I can't stand football, I prefer heavy metal, I don't have a TV and I despise mobile phones, plus I don't believe you need to get plastered on a night out to enjoy yourself. Nuff said.

The only way I've found to deal with a job I detest is this: the instant I ride out of the gate, the site and everyone who works there effectively cease to exist. I utterly shut the whole damn thing out of my mind as much as I can. That's the reason I don't go on the occasional pubcrawl or whatever with them: I see enough of them at work. I don't want anything to remind me of work while I'm not there.

It is, I admit, an entirely negative and not entirely effective way of dealing. Nevertheless, it is my way.

FYI, the shift has a high incidence of people drinking and even using drugs on company time. The Health & Safety at Work Act (1977) notwithstanding, very few have been sacked for this even though it's a) illegal and b) gross misconduct. But no-one in management has ever thought to ask why it's happening. I think the shift would benefit from some sort of counselling service...once they stopped laughing at the very idea, that is. It'd have to be done by a woman in order to engage their interest, though; we have precisely one woman on the shop floor (we hardly ever see the clerical staff, as they're on a different shift and in the offices anyway), and she's a new manager. The few times we've had women on the workforce - well, it never works out.

Originally Posted by Bender

once you start to build a rapport, then things wil just flow naturally. don't force freindships though. these are obvious and the more dominant in the 'friendship' (ie, the one who is not begging for friends) will often abuse the trust gained or take advantage of someones good nature, as the less dominant in the relationship will tend to go out of their own way in order to simply please the otehr just to retain the 'friendship'.

be yourself. relax. laugh. smile. not every conversation has to be about work. talk about an embarrassing situation you once found yourself in. people are naturally curious and will listen. once they realise that you are willing to make yourself look silly, but are big enough to make a funny story out of it, others will tend to accept you more readily, as you have proven that you are down to Earth. a real person who does have mishaps, if you will - not just that person at work who doesn't talk to anyone unless it's about work itself.

The workforce isn't the problem in that regard - it's the moron who's been seconded to the depot for a year, and the senior managers under him, who make the job worse than it should be. I get on very well with some of the lads (the few who don't elevate stupidity to the level of an art form), but I prefer to keep home life and work existence separate. I never intended to be there this long, but life seems to conspire to keep me there. About the time I was thinking of moving on I had an accident and spent months recovering. Then there have been shift changes, illnesses, family troubles...I don't know, it's been one damn thing after another. It's coming up to 10 years - 10 wasted years, basically - and I'm still stuck there.

Originally Posted by Bender

rapport is key, but don't force it. try reading up on neuro-linguistics and human psychology. it's a fascinating subject and I promise you will learn invaluable skills, even so far as manipulation of situations to favour your own objectives (eg, you want a promotion or are looking for a discount on something for sale). you'll get to learn how others work and will be able to spot trends and habits that certain people have, including body language and speech types, which you can then use to further strengthen your rapport.

Sorry, but you're essentially talking about 9 - 5 office jobs there. None of it applies. There are no "objectives" except to do whatever work you're given ASAP. There's no promotion per se...and one or two managers who did start on the shop floor should've stayed there. Believe.

Of course I'd like to leave. Gods, how I wish. Over 90% of us are hoping for redundancy - we can't afford to just quit, especially with everything falling apart. For me, the money would tide me over for a bit, while I collect my shattered thoughts, attempt to rebuild my sanity which has been severely eroded by 9 years in that hellpit, and try to come up with something. I've even thought about emigration more than once, the enormous obstacles and expense notwithstanding.

And we've gone thoroughly off-topic. My fault.

[idi banashapan]

not at all. sounds like you're in a right pickle! I know what you mean about odd shifts. I used to work 24hr shifts up to a year ago and it would constantly rotate nights, lates then days. horrible! you're absolutely right - it means you're so tired the LAST thing you want to do is go out.

unfortunately, in todays economic climate, the best thing to do just isn't viable, which is to look for another job. though 9 years seems a looooong time to spend in a job you hate.

it's a shame when there's no one at work you can relate to. I'm lucky that the jobs I've had over the years have always come with a great bunch of people too, however, I too have had some idiot managers (though luckily, not anymore).

as for my point about talking to people and getting to know them / them to know you - you've just told us a bit about yourself, tell them too. and no, you don;t need to get drunk to have a good time. I very very rarely drink (the missus bought some beers for christmas and they are still in the fridge now!).

not sure what more to suggest other than to get out on your days off or in the mornings. i get the impression you have fallen into a spiral of darkness and need to get off ASAP.

do you have any hobbies? thought about retraining or looking for work in the area you studied in? I'm sure I know the answers, but you have to keep at it. jobs don't fall on laps.

you come across as intelligent and more than capable of bettering yourself if you set your mind to it. sometimes it just needs a smile and a glimmer of hope that things can be better to give you that push start, but it can only come from within you. it doesn't matter what others say to you.