Virgin Media Cable Network - Milton Keynes

[carlwaring]

Originally Posted by mal4mac

I don't have an STB, and Virgin Media say I can't have one, and if they did give me one it would be no use. I'm not sure I believe them

I was going to as "So how are you getting VM's services then?" but I seem to recall there's something 'special' about Milton Keynes wrt cable services, isn't there?

[spiderplant]

Originally Posted by Kymmy

Just buy a 2nd hand TV in the mean time.. Last one I got when I wanted one for the workshop was a Hitachi 28" widescreen CRT for £20 from a local off ebay.. It even has WSS

Or get one from Freecycle for nowt

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freecycleMilton-Keynes/

[mal4mac]

Originally Posted by carlwaring

I was going to as "So how are you getting VM's services then?" but I seem to recall there's something 'special' about Milton Keynes wrt cable services, isn't there?

It's an analogue service so you can just plug directly into it.

Someone on the virgin forum says they managed to extract an analogue STB out of Virgin, which brings them more services, and which I hope might solve my aspect problem.

I've never used an STB - and know nothing about them. Do any of you experts know if all/most STBs provide analogue-in/analogue-out and aspect control?

[spiderplant]

Analogue STBs are analogue in and out. They would provide more channels if your TV wasn't capable of tunng to the full set of frequencies used on cable, which is wider than those through an aerial. I don't know of any aspect ratio conversion facility in them.

[monstermunch]

Originally Posted by carlwaring

I was going to as "So how are you getting VM's services then?" but I seem to recall there's something 'special' about Milton Keynes wrt cable services, isn't there?

Yep, MK Cable TV system is weird. Every house in MK (except for those in the older surrounding areas) has a cable socket pre-installed and if you have an analogue TV you can use the cable socket to view the basic five channels and one or two others without a set top box and without any kind of subscription package from VM. The original idea behind this (when MK was first being built in the early/mid 70s) was that it would negate the use of roof top aerials.

To view the subscription channels (Sky 1, Sky Sports etc), however, you need an analogue VM set top box.

The cable TV system is still 'old school' UHF analogue and only carries around 30 channels. The situation is even more bizarre since we had the digital switch over a few weeks ago. Now VM take a digital signal and then convert it to UHF analogue for distribution over the MK cable TV system! Then you have a local covenant which prohibits the use the roof top aerials and satellite dishes which everybody now ignores, including MK Council who are the would be enforcers, because they know that freeview and freesat are now the only realistic free to air options available to MK residents. Until the old MK cable TV system is upgraded to digital it's effectively a lame duck as the few remaining users will eventually upgrade to modern digital TVs and will most likely choose to use freeview or satellite. The chances of an upgrade, however, are slim at best. BT own the lease on the infrastructure (which they lease to VM) and they're being as obstructive as possible in order to protect their position. At least until they've deployed their own FTTP/FTTC infrastructure in MK (and there are significant problems with that which I won't go into here). Meanwhile VM seem content with the status quo so long as it turns a profit, all be it a small and ever decreasing profit. Even if BT we're cooperative it remains to be seen whether VM would have the will and the resources to upgrade an antiquated cable system to DOCSIS. Especially bearing in mind that it would have to be a complete root and branch refit as some of cables to customer premises are aluminium and would need to be replaced with copper. More info at - http://www.mkbag.org/

[VirginMediaPhil]

Milton Keynes has the oldest cable network, and therefore the hardest cable network to upgrade.

Years ago NTL and Telewest went into bankruptcy after amounting masses of debt on upgrading cable infrastructure. It's unlikely the current management at Virgin want to do the same.

[mal4mac]

Originally Posted by monstermunch

... you can use the cable socket to view the basic five channels and one or two others without ... any kind of subscription package from VM.

Are you actually getting this service for free? I thought it was £4 a month...

Originally Posted by monstermunch

To view the subscription channels (Sky 1, Sky Sports etc), however, you need an analogue VM set top box.

Are you getting these services? I asked VM last week and was told it was not possible to get an analogue set top box.

Originally Posted by monstermunch

Until the old MK cable TV system is upgraded to digital it's effectively a lame duck as the few remaining users will eventually upgrade to modern digital TVs and will most likely choose to use freeview or satellite.

The duck was hobbling last week, but they have fixed the "squishing" problem. The actual sound and image now look very good ... so the duck is no longer lame.

How do you know there are "few remaining users"?

How do you know that I, or others, will upgrade to "modern digital TVs"? I'm happy with my old CRT.

If VM and the users are content with the status quo, then why not keep the status quo?

[VirginMediaPhil]

Originally Posted by mal4mac

How do you know that I, or others, will upgrade to "modern digital TVs"? I'm happy with my old CRT

Because most people don't have the same TV as they had in the 80s. Same can apply here to your TV from the 00s in a few years time.

[monstermunch]

Originally Posted by mal4mac

Are you actually getting this service for free? I thought it was £4 a month...

No I haven’t used it for donkeys years. As I remember there was a small yearly fee but not a cable 'subscription' as most people would understand it. I presume this is the £4 a month you mention.

Originally Posted by mal4mac

Are you getting these services? I asked VM last week and was told it was not possible to get an analogue set top box.

No but you always used to be able to get an analogue set top box from VM to access premium channels. Perhaps this has changed since digital switch over. If so then you have to wonder about the profitability and viability of a cable TV service that can only offer access to the basic five channels.

Originally Posted by mal4mac

How do you know there are "few remaining users"?

The MK Cable TV system currently serves 11,000 out of a potential 65,000 homes. That is a very small number compared to it’s heyday when there was near universal take up. It's hardly surprising that people are voting with their feet when it seems that MK cable TV can now only supply the basic five channels and there are digital free to air alternatives like Freeview and Freesat.

More info here -

http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/2391673...+Broadband.pdf

http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/MKBAG/message/1570

Originally Posted by mal4mac

How do you know that I, or others, will upgrade to "modern digital TVs"? I'm happy with my old CRT.

Most TVs have a lifespan of 10 – 15 years. Digital terrestrial television was launched in 1998 so it’s reasonable to assume that most of the remaining analogue TVs will be replaced in the next few years, or upgraded with the addition of a Freeview set top box which can be purchased for as little as £15.

Originally Posted by mal4mac

If VM and the users are content with the status quo, then why not keep the status quo?

The fact that VM now supply only 11k out of a potential 65k homes suggests that users are not happy with the status quo now that they have the option of Freeview or Freesat. Also bear in mind that MK has a long standing problem with broadband provision, more info here http://mkbag.org/ That problem would be eliminated and subscriber numbers would skyrocket if the cable TV system were upgraded to digital.

[mal4mac]

I only want the five basic channels, and if the quality remains as good as it is at present I think £4 a month is quite reasonable. 11 000 people using the service seems a reasonably high number, if Virgin are getting £44 000 a month that should (surely!) be enough to keep the basic service running.

Where do you get that 10 -15 year lifespan from? Are you including LCD TVs in that estimate? That should drag the average down I've known many people who've had CRTs longer than that.

The 11k out of 65k number might just as easily indicate that too many people are too easily swayed by modern trends, and by newness for the sake of newness, and by Murdoch's 'never mind the quality feel the width' approach.

P.S. I wish VM would provide a better BBC radio 3 & 4 signal... if someone offered that I might change...

[monstermunch]

Originally Posted by mal4mac

I only want the five basic channels, and if the quality remains as good as it is at present I think £4 a month is quite reasonable.

That’s fair enough, of course, but Freeview can be accessed with a £15 set top box. Even when you factor in the cost of aerial installation (which isn’t always needed) two or three years at £4 a month would easily cover the cost. So in the long run Freeview and Freesat are cheaper, and they offer much more choice, interactive services and better picture quality.

Originally Posted by mal4mac

11 000 people using the service seems a reasonably high number, if Virgin are getting £44 000 a month that should (surely!) be enough to keep the basic service running.

That 11k figure is a moving target though and I suspect the churn will have ramped up quite considerably in the lead up to digital switch over. Every time one of those 11k customers buys a new TV, or a Freeview set top box, or Freesat, or Sky Satellite - VM lose a subscriber.

Also, I would not underestimate the cost of maintaining what is a very antiquated cable TV system. VM have to pay for the lease from BT, they also have to maintain their part of the network and often have to pay BT to make repairs or have BT engineers oversee work on the parts of the network where ownership is in dispute.

Originally Posted by mal4mac

Where do you get that 10 -15 year lifespan from? Are you including LCD TVs in that estimate? That should drag the average down I've known many people who've had CRTs longer than that.

We’re not a family who have to have the ‘latest and greatest’ and we bought our first remote control CRT in the mid 80s, it finally died in the mid 90s and we replaced it with a widescreen CRT. That began to give up about three years ago and we wanted to save space so we bought a digital flat screen. I honestly can’t think of anyone I know who still has a CRT, even my nan has a digital flat screen.

My other nan used to have a very old late 1970s CRT which lasted for about 25 years but in that time it had been repaired several times. I think the only reason she kept it was because she was familiar with the controls and in any case TVs are so cheap these days it’s often cheaper to buy a new one than have it repaired.

Originally Posted by mal4mac

The 11k out of 65k number might just as easily indicate that too many people are too easily swayed by modern trends, and by newness for the sake of newness, and by Murdoch's 'never mind the quality feel the width' approach.

I suspect it has more to do with Freeview and Freesat which have been heavily advertised in the lead up to digital switch over. Remember that in all other parts of the country you now need a digital TV or set top box, or you will do very soon. It’s only in Milton Keynes that analogue TV is being kept on temporary life support via analogue cable TV. The Government even pay for digital TV equipment and installation for elderly and vulnerable people. A little over ten years ago there were no roof top aerials or satellite dishes in the cabled areas of MK. Notice anything different nowadays?

I think most people are less influenced by the offerings of Sky/Murdoch (I’m no fan either btw), but rather they’re switching to Freeview and Freesat because there's lots of very good free to air content which isn’t available on the basic five channels, for instance, channels such as BBC THREE, BBC FOUR, E4 and Film4 etc.

Originally Posted by mal4mac

P.S. I wish VM would provide a better BBC radio 3 & 4 signal... if someone offered that I might change...

Get a Freeview set top box for around £15 and you also get access to digital radio channels - http://www.freeview.co.uk/Channels

[mal4mac]

There are freeview MK horror stories:

http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question...6062137AAxNrWT

[m419]

[QUOTE=mal4mac;35220699]I don't have an STB, and Virgin Media say I can't have one, and if they did give me one it would be no use. I'm not sure I believe them

To be honest there is no point giving set top boxes out there, in fact most of them from previous owners probably no longer work due to the age of them and furthermore, it is fact that you can get more channels through freeview than you can through Virgin Media's analogue tv service.

All you can get is:

BBC1,BBC2,ITV1,Channel 4,Channel 5,ITV2,Eurosport,Movies 24,4 music and then in time shifted paterns you get History,National Geographic and Living, you do not get Challenge and since Bravo has been discontinued, you obviously can't get that anymore either. You cannot get Sky Movies on this because of the new pin protection settings before watershed hours. And Sky Sports was removed a few years back.

So the option which Virgin Media give you is to plug the cable directly into the TV. So no, they won't give you one

For all enquiries about Westminster and Milton Keynes call 0800-952-0345 and select option 5. And for those wanting the service in city of london/barbican, I don't think it even exists anymore.

[monstermunch]

Originally Posted by mal4mac

There are freeview MK horror stories:

http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question...6062137AAxNrWT

It's true that Freeview reception can be patchy in MK but potential problems can be avoided by getting a professional aerial installer to do the job. They would advise on the best set up and get the optimal signal. If it's a particularly poor reception area they would probably advise you to install Freesat which is the same service but through a satellite dish. Also, the Freeview signal in MK should be a lot stronger now that Sandy Heath transmitter has had digital switch over. It can push out a much stronger signal now that the analogue spectrum has been freed up.

Shenley Aerials installed my Freeview aerial, they did a superb job, very polite and professional too.