"Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"

[Osem]

I think too many 'parents' have simply abdicated responsibility for their offspring so that the myriad of negative influences today's kids come into contact with are not challenged and dealt with by adults but are allowed to take root and propagate.

There are parents that have abdicated responsibility no denying that and their children then influence the other kids who have attentive and caring parents making the whole situation for those parents harder. I have a 14 year old son and a 17 year old daughter who feel their time to be in is very limited compared to a few of their friends while other friends of theirs have even strictor in times then i and my wife impose.

Those kids who have parents that don't care know thats the case and then try to influence other kids to misbehave so they are not alone. As for social service's i am sorry i have neither time or respect for them as i know many people that have gone to them seeking help only to be told to come back when a problem escalates into something serious. By the time that happen's it is too late and early intervention surely must be better then allowing things to get out of control.

[Osem]

and here's yet another example of how tough they are:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7326439.stm

I heard the cousin of the victim interviewed on the radio this evening - he talked a great deal of common sense but I don't suppose the Jack Straw and his buddies will be listening.

Excuse me and I do hate to sound like a broken record BUT not every teenager is a thug.Most of them are thoroughly decent even when out with their mates.It's a small minority who are feral,lost youth..From the way some of you are talking it's as if every teenager in the country is out of control.

Thompson and Rowe, who showed no emotion as they were sentenced, will be out in less than 18 months.

It's a joke.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Incognitas

Excuse me and I do hate to sound like a broken record BUT not every teenager is a thug.Most of them are thoroughly decent even when out with their mates.It's a small minority who are feral,lost youth..From the way some of you are talking it's as if every teenager in the country is out of control.

I have a teenage son so would be the last to claim any such thing. We all know it's a minority but these crimes are on the increase and sentencing like this is not a deterrent - in fact it exacerbates the problem. The extent to which youths are a significant problem also varies greatly according to where you happen to live. Broadstairs and Frinton on Sea aren't exactly renowned for serious gang violence amongst youths whereas many inner city areas are.

The only reason I cited the case above was because I happened to hear the story on the car radio on my way home this evening and was greatly moved by the comments of the relative interviewed who explained how the death of his cousin had destroyed his family's lives and how he felt the sentence was an insult. I must say that I totally agree with him!

This thread is not about youths, it's about HMG once again failing to live up to it's much trumpeted promises.

Problem is tough sentencing only works if the person commiting the crime believe's they will be caught. Many of the wrong do'ers these days simply don't believe they will get caught so why worry about the sentence you might get if your caught. If the government wants to be taken seriously then we need to get to a stage where somebody doing anything wrong knows there is a good chance of being caught and severely punished then we will see less of this sort of thing.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Enuff

It's a joke.

No it's what you get when you let the tree huggers set the laws.

The types that send convicted thugs and car thieves on holidays, The ones who give new names to convicted killers, The same ones that set convicted killers up with a new life and security paid for by the tax payers of this country. The same ones that think the human rights act is there to get the criminals off and to stop the average person from defending themselves. The same ones that released a Thug in the morning in Warrington who had been before the judge so he could then go and Murder a innocent man in the evening who was only defending himself.

There is no justice in this country unless your one of those up before a weak Judge who lets you off for beating a man to a pulp so you can then go out and do it again .

Weak on crime hard on the victims of crime. That's what the tag line should read.

[Derek]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

Problem is tough sentencing only works if the person commiting the crime believe's they will be caught.

And when they do get caught the punishment isn't enough to make them think it's not a good idea to do it again.
You have community service thats not done, fines that aren't paid and short custodial sentences that they are released from in less than half the time they should have been inside for. And even when they are inside it's not especially a tough enviroment, some regular customers of the Police even prefer being inside to life outside!
Regular meals, cheap sky tv, playstations, gyms, all the drugs they can snort/smoke/inject.

I've said it before that there aren't a lot of criminals out there but a lot of crime being committed by the same people. If judges started locking them up for longer crime would fall and some of the hangers on get the message that if you are caught you are off the street for a considerable time.

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by Derek S

And when they do get caught the punishment isn't enough to make them think it's not a good idea to do it again.
You have community service thats not done, fines that aren't paid and short custodial sentences that they are released from in less than half the time they should have been inside for. And even when they are inside it's not especially a tough enviroment, some regular customers of the Police even prefer being inside to life outside!
Regular meals, cheap sky tv, playstations, gyms, all the drugs they can snort/smoke/inject.

I've said it before that there aren't a lot of criminals out there but a lot of crime being committed by the same people. If judges started locking them up for longer crime would fall and some of the hangers on get the message that if you are caught you are off the street for a considerable time.

I agree with all you say, I do know a few small time ciminals that are no longer teenagers but in their early to mid 20's and all they seem to get is community service. About 2 convictions ago he was hoping for a custodial sentence instead of yet more community sevice.

I have not seen him for a week or so, but he apparently missed his last court apearance. I know he had been in for questioining about other crimes the night beforehis appearance but I do not know the details of why he missed court.

What gets me is the people who think prison is not the answer, taking this guy as an example any form of punishment that does not involve locking him up results in crime whilst he is serving his weak punishment.

The only time this guy is not robbing and stealing is when he is locked behind bars. Am I that wrong to conclude that prison, as well as being punishment for the offender is also designed to keep offenders of the streets and stop you and I being victims.

[Derek]

There is one person I'm aware of and have had dealings with. He's 18 and since his 16th birthday has racked up over 60 convictions (The true figure when you include the plea bargains, dropped cases and ones he hasn't been charged with must be well over 100)
These aren't just petty stuff there are robbery, drugs supply, possession of knifes/offensive weapons, serious assaults, housebreakings and various other charges in there.

The amount of time he's had in prison? Two 1 month sentences.

He's spent more time in Police cells awaiting court than actually in prison. He'll never change, he's been through every type of course and rehabilitation you can get. The only solution is to put him behind bars for quite some time.

[Osem]

Derek, do you think that guy's life would've turned out differently had the system cracked down on his activities far more harshly and from an earlier age? My opinion is that contempt for the law an society in general is bred into these kids and by the time they're in their 20's for many of them it's just too late.

[Derek]

Originally Posted by Osem

Derek, do you think that guy's life would've turned out differently had the system cracked down on his activities far more harshly and from an earlier age?

Well without saying too much. From people I work with who have endured his antics for a while they have said from age 8 they knew he'd be either dead or in jail by 20.
He's about 18 right now, brain damaged by drug consumption from an early age, and when he was in care (from 13-16) constantly ran away because he couldn't handle the regime in care homes.

*IF* he was given intensive care and support from an early age then maybe he'd have turned out differently.
As it is any improvement made when in care was counteracted when he ran off and came home or came home on approved visits.
I work in the most deprived area of Scotland and there are plenty of decent, hard-working folk living there, there are however a couple of families (his included) who'd be better off getting re-located to St. Kilda.

[Osem]

Yes I guess there will always be some who will always turn out bad but I can't help thinking that the softly softly approach doesn't do many of these young offenders much good in the longer term.

[Escapee]

I saw one of the local young ciminals yesterday on crutches. The story is that he fell off his motorbike, but I also heard he did it falling off wall.

I'm not sure how he could of done it on a motorbike because he has lost his driving licence.

Anyway, the good news is that whilst on crutches I doubt he is able to continue with his career in crime. I guess he will have to concentrate on his drug dealing career until he is fully mobile.

So perhaps the answer is to break their legs if they are caught stealing, at least it keeps them out of action for a while and thats certainly more effective than community service.