Every little helps…

[danielf]

Originally Posted by ronald146m

Well, it says in big red letters on the ad:-

PC uses Linux Operating System

So they know what they're getting.

I think you overestimate Joe public's knowledge of computers. Most people don't know what an Operating System is...

[xpod]

What happens when joe soap and wife (who have little experience of computers apart from using one at work) see one of these pc's, decide to buy one for the kids as it is far more helpful to their future education than a console, and then find that they can't use (say) the family digital camera as no one has written drivers? What happens whe little johnny soap (their son) discovers that not only has he got a pc instead of the console he was promised, but that 90% of the games available won't run without extra software (if at all)?

I cant speak for all digital cameras but i`ve not plugged one in yet that has`nt shown up on my desktop as an extra drive.I might not have all the fancy fuctions of your typical sony erricson suite of course but i can get my photos off and into my photo editing/viewing apps without a problem, which is all i want really.

If anyone who only uses a pc at work "sees" teh Linux pc and buys it thinking it`s like/Windows and will do just fine for wee Soapy & his "pc" games then tough luck i say.They need slapped with a wet fish and sent on some better IT courses at work mabey.
If they genuinely are more concerned about their kids education though then mabey Linux might just turn out to be such a bad mistake after all eh?

I dont know what it is about gamers though but they assume everyone else only wants to play games.
Our lot have all their Playstations,Nintendos & psps and they do have Windows around if they want to play "pc" games but i doubt our girls are ever going to be tooo interested in gaming as such and our lad would certainly rather have his consoles for his games.

It`s just not a big deal thats all.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by xpod

I cant speak for all digital cameras but i`ve not plugged one in yet that has`nt shown up on my desktop as an extra drive.I might not have all the fancy fuctions of your typical sony erricson suite of course but i can get my photos off and into my photo editing/viewing apps without a problem, which is all i want really.

If anyone who only uses a pc at work "sees" teh Linux pc and buys it thinking it`s like/Windows and will do just fine for wee Soapy & his "pc" games then tough luck i say.They need slapped with a wet fish and sent on some better IT courses at work mabey.
If they genuinely are more concerned about their kids education though then mabey Linux might just turn out to be such a bad mistake after all eh?

"tough luck" isn't an attitude that helps. What'll happen is that a lot of people will return their PCs.

Actualy, I am not saying Linux is a mistake. As long as you can learn new stuff, it is an excellent OS. However, most people (in my experience) are not interested enough in computing to bother to learn new OSs. Most people in my experience, are not even aware that their PC does run an OS.

I dont know what it is about gamers though but they assume everyone else only wants to play games.
Our lot have all their Playstations,Nintendos & psps and they do have Windows around if they want to play "pc" games but i doubt our girls are ever going to be tooo interested in gaming as such and our lad would certainly rather have his consoles for his games.

It`s just not a big deal thats all.

It may not be to you, but it may be to someone else.

You haven't read my post correctly. The scenario I envisaged is that the parents have about £200 they can spend on their kid's birthday present. The aforementioned kid wants a games console. The parents see the PC, and think "Ohh, he can play games on that and do more", so they buy the PC.

While I am aware that Linux *can* play games, very few shops (on or off line) sell Linux specific games, and while it can play Windows games with some tweaking, little johnny is going to be a little disappointed when he finds he cannot buy games off the shelf.

Also, bear in mind that a family in this position are unlikely to have (at least initially) the knowledge required to tweak linux (I count emulators such as wine as tweaks).

Also, regarding the hardware, I picked Digicams as an example of something people are likely to have, but my point refers to any bit of hardware they might have (such as a mobile phone for instance).

[xpod]

"tough luck" isn't an attitude that helps. What'll happen is that a lot of people will return their PCs.

Actualy, I am not saying Linux is a mistake. As long as you can learn new stuff, it is an excellent OS. However, most people (in my experience) are not interested enough in computing to bother to learn new OSs. Most people in my experience, are not even aware that their PC does run an OS.

Your right and i take the "tough luck" bit back.
I`d be the first to argue against them selling pre-installed Linux pc`s without at least having someone on hand at every potential purchase to explain a few realities to Mr & Mrs Soap.

It may not be to you, but it may be to someone else.

Me/Us....or hundreds of thousands of other users either.
I think there are probably quite a few more NON-pc gamers out there than there are those who do, dont you?

You haven't read my post correctly. The scenario I envisaged is that the parents have about £200 they can spend on their kid's birthday present. The aforementioned kid wants a games console. The parents see the PC, and think "Ohh, he can play games on that and do more", so they buy the PC.

I think you`ll find i`ve read it just fine...
I`m not actually disputing what you say in fact.Of course there will be those cases but,all i`m saying is...What about the thousands of other senarios,that dont involve pc games?

While I am aware that Linux *can* play games, very few shops (on or off line) sell Linux specific games, and while it can play Windows games with some tweaking, little johnny is going to be a little disappointed when he finds he cannot buy games off the shelf.

Also, bear in mind that a family in this position are unlikely to have (at least initially) the knowledge required to tweak linux (I count emulators such as wine as tweaks).

I just dont think pc games are the be all & end all of pc use.While ending up with a Linux pc might be problematic for those who bought one intending to play pc games again i thinik thats the retailers responsibility to at least assure these people are properly informed before they leave the shop.

Also, regarding the hardware, I picked Digicams as an example of something people are likely to have, but my point refers to any bit of hardware they might have (such as a mobile phone for instance).

Mabey we`re just lucky
With quite a large family we seem to go through more phones and mp3 players etc than i care to even think about and the only thing i`ve ever plugged into Ubuntu that has not shown up right away has been the eyetoy`s they have and some other dodgy webcam a while back.
Again,i know what your saying and i`m not completely disputing it but the truth, for us anyway is that i`ve struggled(so far) to find hardware of any sort that did`nt just work in Ubuntu, out the box so to speak.

Ipods/MP3 players,usb drives,Cameras,Phones galore....they`ve all shown up as extra drives and while that might not have the same shiney functionality you get with the fancy suites that come with your >insert device< it`s more than enough to do what needs done in most cases.

Just cuz someone in a family is linux capable does not mean general public is. Its not likely many people have had no exposure to a pc if they are buying one but they may not have the knowledge to realise what linux is and having a machine with linux installed may mean nothing to them till they get it home and finds it different. I wish there wasnt this constant one upmanship from Linux users some of whom think that they can use it anyone can. I know this is going to be disputed but windows is a hell of a lot easier massively more supported by software writers . Supported by tech support centres when something with a peripheral goes wrong etc. I wish the ours is better than yours would end and whats actually going to be the best thing for the low knowledge end user who may have been on a friends windows machine and just wants to be able to use it. If everybody had someone who could go and show them around linux then it would be fine but not everyone is so lucky.Please some of you nix users accept that just cuz you can use it does not mean everyone can and there is a real chance some customers will end up dispointed with a box that is of little use. This isnt down to linux its down to the retailer offering a lack of information

[xpod]

Just cuz someone in a family is linux capable does not mean general public is. Its not likely many people have had no exposure to a pc if they are buying one but they may not have the knowledge to realise what linux is and having a machine with linux installed may mean nothing to them till they get it home and finds it different. I wish there wasnt this constant one upmanship from Linux users some of whom think that they can use it anyone can. I know this is going to be disputed but windows is a hell of a lot easier massively more supported by software writers . Supported by tech support centres when something with a peripheral goes wrong etc. I wish the ours is better than yours would end and whats actually going to be the best thing for the low knowledge end user who may have been on a friends windows machine and just wants to be able to use it. If everybody had someone who could go and show them around linux then it would be fine but not everyone is so lucky.Please some of you nix users accept that just cuz you can use it does not mean everyone can and there is a real chance some customers will end up dispointed with a box that is of little use. This isnt down to linux its down to the retailer offering a lack of information

Erm....i was(am) the general public prior to landing on some strange website one day and i think my previous 4 months with a Windows computer really dont count for too much in the bigger scheme of things zing.PC(never mind linux) Incapable and most certainly the preverbial "pops"!!!!
And i didn`t get it pre-installed for me either

I dont know where your seeing this "mines is better than yours" attitude but i cant see it from anybody.......then again,it may just have reared it`s ugly head eh

I wish there wasnt this constant one upmanship from Linux users some of whom think that they can use it anyone can.

I`m sorry but you seem to be the one mis-reading posts now zing

well now your assuming I was directing my comments at you. I was simply generalising. You have not seen me slagging Nix off for a while now all im saying imo it isnt suitable for sale on machine such as these unless sold correctly with more information

I am in no way a noob and I do not find anything amazingly interesting for me in Linux. I have said a few times now that linux is great for office machines and web browsers you have even seen me agree with a recommendation to try it on lower end hardware. My view has modified but I still do not think its ready for the mainstream

[Halcyon]

I think that a lot of people will have no idea what Linux is.
I can see a lot of these being taken back.

Originally Posted by zinglebarb

Just cuz someone in a family is linux capable does not mean general public is. Its not likely many people have had no exposure to a pc if they are buying one but they may not have the knowledge to realise what linux is and having a machine with linux installed may mean nothing to them till they get it home and finds it different. I wish there wasnt this constant one upmanship from Linux users some of whom think that they can use it anyone can. I know this is going to be disputed but windows is a hell of a lot easier massively more supported by software writers . Supported by tech support centres when something with a peripheral goes wrong etc. I wish the ours is better than yours would end and whats actually going to be the best thing for the low knowledge end user who may have been on a friends windows machine and just wants to be able to use it. If everybody had someone who could go and show them around linux then it would be fine but not everyone is so lucky.Please some of you nix users accept that just cuz you can use it does not mean everyone can and there is a real chance some customers will end up dispointed with a box that is of little use. This isnt down to linux its down to the retailer offering a lack of information

To your talk about vista and 512mb ram, as far as i recall, m$ made the min requirement 1gb, but dell threw a hissy fit and made them drop it down to 512mb so dell could shift their crap pcs. (well, most of their pcs are crap but lets not go there )

As for tech support centres, i've never come across one that doesnt know at least something about linux, unless its run by morons, considering most servers are run on linux its actually a requirement for most tech support that the staff worker knows his way around linux, windows and mac.

Least that is true for anywhere i've applied for a job,however tech support is a tedious job regardless.

Linux still has a long way to go, so your right, not everyone can use it (nor does everyone want to)

All down to personal preference, i do however feel that ubuntu is taking the right path forward to make it easy for everyone to use, while still giving the user the power to modifiy etc if needs be.

Vista, to me, is a huge failure, but i saw what it was supposed to be, and after going through the alpha and beta stages upon release i was amazingly dissapointed, i do feel as if its too overbloated, though i imagine nvidia pumping out unbelievably poor drivers to the public isnt helping vista on that front either.

I, personally (just like you), dont understand this "my OS is better than yours" feels like a prick waving contest sometimes, each OS is different, and has different purposes, that's the good thing about it, freedom of choice, some people are happy with windows (like i was, 2k pro and xp pro was excellent), but vista has let me down big time, after all the hype, i expected alot more than a rather clunky and inconsistent ui , i know about internal changes with vista(although there isnt that many) but its just not worth the money to me.

But i do remember how unstable xp pro was at release, so hopefully vista will get better around sp2 (sp1 isnt bringing any improvements, its not a major service pack, just bug fixes).

Me, im quite happy with my linux setup (compiz-fusion really helps, feels alot more fluent than aero imo).

And some people are happy with their macs, so just enjoy the OS that you use, and carry on with life

[slowcoach]

The main point is that Tesco customers are now offered a choice of OS when they buy a new PC, previously you had to buy Windows with your purchase even if you didn't want it.

Tesco are selling budget PC's so even if you do buy the Windows version, running the latest games isn't going to be a very enjoyable experience due to the hardware specifications, thankfully there are lots of other things you can do on a PC some of which may help children to get a better job when they grow up, which just so happens to be the main reason parents buy a PC for their children, theoretically anyway.

The low prices might make retired people buy their first PC, initially you need to spend a lot of time to learn how to use a PC, something many retired people have an abundance of. The fact that all the software they are ever likely to need is available for free is an added bonus for people on a low income.

Today's Linux comes with better hardware support than any past/present OS, the very latest hardware could be a temporary problem but even this is being rectified with the new initiative of working with the hardware manufacturers to write and keep updated drivers for the new hardware prior to it appearing in the shops, as this is a free service there is now no longer any excuse for new hardware to appear on the shelves without Linux drivers in the box.

As we have seen with the release of VISTA, Microsoft's model of dumbing down Windows over the years has resulted in a lot of the user base unable/unwilling to accept changes and instead reverting back to XP, this has never happened with previous versions of Windows because security, prior to VISTA, was always a low priority, sure, some users would put off upgrading but to actually go back to an earlier version was almost unknown.
Times change, some people get left behind and stagnate others move forward and prosper, nothing new there.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by xpod

I dont know where your seeing this "mines is better than yours" attitude but i cant see it from anybody.......then again,it may just have reared it`s ugly head eh

Certainly not from me.. I'm seriously considering selling my PC and moving totally over to Macs. The only reason I haven't sold my PC is that it currently has nearly a terabyte of storage, which would be a little difficult to fit into a laptop, and the fact that I do need Windows for some stuff, and the macbook only has a 120G system drive, which looks a little small when you bung Mac OSX, Final Cut Studio (which in a full installation is 68 gig itself) and Windows.

---------- Post added at 16:53 ---------- Previous post was at 16:51 ----------

Originally Posted by slowcoach

The main point is that Tesco customers are now offered a choice of OS when they buy a new PC, previously you had to buy Windows with your purchase even if you didn't want it.

However, I don't' believe tesco are the first to offer Linux. Doesn't that particular honour belong to Dell?

[dragon]

Originally Posted by Stuart C

You haven't read my post correctly. The scenario I envisaged is that the parents have about £200 they can spend on their kid's birthday present. The aforementioned kid wants a games console. The parents see the PC, and think "Ohh, he can play games on that and do more", so they buy the PC.

Then prepare for a disappointed kid becuase a £200 Pc can be running linux or windows it don't make a blind bit of difference its not going to have the power to run anything other than £10 bargin bucket games and even some of them won't work.

I have a core2 e6420 2gb ram and a 7800GT 256mb and that won't play bioshock on high

The pc cost around £380 when i bought it although I did put the 7800GT in from the previous pc it actually shipped with a x1300 in (which is in the old pc now )

[Graham M]

Originally Posted by dragon

I have a core2 e6420 2gb ram and a 7800GT 256mb and that won't play bioshock on high

Something isn't right then as it runs fantastically on high for me on a Single Core Athlon 3700+, 3gb cheapo RAM and a 7600GT 256

[dragon]

Originally Posted by Zeph

Something isn't right then as it runs fantastically on high for me on a Single Core Athlon 3700+, 3gb cheapo RAM and a 7600GT 256

I was running at 1440x900 and it was running vista at the time

[keithwalton]

vista basic is fine with 512megs of ram, home premium (aeroglass + sidebar) on the otherhand pushes that upto a gig minimum, preferably two. With regards to plugging in cameras and such to linux computers, most cheaper cameras use a usb mass storage driver (like the usb pen drive) to download onto computers (and upload to camera as well) which is universally supported and quite nice.
Move away from cheap cameras however and your in trouble, my canon ixus 900 has its own special interface driver, last time i checked my camera was not supported in linux, at least not by canon.

Sony cameras i believe are similar in that they bespoke drivers