still racist

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

And when a successful black man (Bill Crosby) speaks out and says that these days the only thing stopping young blacks being successful is themselves, wasting time on gangs and crime rather than getting an education and a decent job, he's shouted down and called a traitor.

Funnily enough the next part of the show talked about the people that have most influence over the worlds media, Oprah Winfry and Tiger Woods were 1 & 2

[punky]

and nearly twice as likely to enter the CJS as a result, the Home Affairs Committee found.

Presumably because they were doing something wrong and they were caught?

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by zinglebarb

You were clear but its how do you get to know someone is arrested without reason? They come out and say they nicked me for nothing mate? could be bull?

By them not recieving a caution or being sent to court, ie were arrested on a charge which wasn't valid, such as an old man calling out "rubbish" doing a politicians speach being arrested under anti-terrorism laws.
The police record how many arrests were made, how many were released without further action, how many were cautioned, how many were referred to the courts.
It's not rocket science to see that if the police are arresting and releasing 30% of blacks arrested compared with 5% of any other group, then they are targetting blacks, and this should be investigated to find out why, for various reasons such as why is so much police time and money being wasted arresting people who shouldn't have been arrested?

again I say just cuz someone is arrested as a suspect but is not charged does not ness make it a waste of time. You cant have a system where the law can not take action just in case it upsets a race. Often someone who has commited such crimes in the past looks like a good possible suspect. I have no problem with him being pulled in for questioning. Often this will be done without arrest if the guy/gal plays the game but if they refuse to help often an arrest is needed. I personally do not have a problem with this. I doubt the police arrest many people for absolutely no reason at all

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by jkat

wow looks like i was wrong reading some of the posts, so your saying blacks commit more crime than whites then? or are u saying "i'm not racist but"?

http://193.113.211.175/duty/duty_facts.html

no its racism, no buts.

The majority of people who commit crimes are poor right?
If a large proportion of the black community are poor, then there is likely to be a large group of poor black people committing crimes.
It's logical.
Social mobility in this country is at an all time low, so if your parents are poor and poorly educated, then you're likely to also be poor and poorly educated, making it harder for you to find a well paid job.
When people are poor, especially the youth, they feel abandoned by society so form gangs. Their gang becomes their only point of respect, everyone and everything outside the gang is viewed as having abandoned them (remember these are poorly educated gang members who are unaware of the help that is available or the reality of life) and so have no problem committing crimes to get by.
Same thing happens with white or asian groups who feel abandoned by society.

In an area where there is a larger proportion of poor blacks than poor whites or asians, then I would expect more blacks to commit crime than any other groups.
Likewise, in an area where there is a larger proprotion of poor whites than other groups, I'd expect most crime to be committed by whites.
How is that racist?

Now, onto those who have made the effort, worked hard at school, college and university, that they are less likely to find employment is likely due to racism in companies. They're comparing pretty much like for like, ie white person with a degree to black person with a degree.
However that's not the police, that's members of the general public who are interviewing people.

Originally Posted by Xaccers

The majority of people who commit crimes are poor right?
If a large proportion of the black community are poor, then there is likely to be a large group of poor black people committing crimes.
It's logical.
Social mobility in this country is at an all time low, so if your parents are poor and poorly educated, then you're likely to also be poor and poorly educated, making it harder for you to find a well paid job.
When people are poor, especially the youth, they feel abandoned by society so form gangs. Their gang becomes their only point of respect, everyone and everything outside the gang is viewed as having abandoned them (remember these are poorly educated gang members who are unaware of the help that is available or the reality of life) and so have no problem committing crimes to get by.
Same thing happens with white or asian groups who feel abandoned by society.

In an area where there is a larger proportion of poor blacks than poor whites or asians, then I would expect more blacks to commit crime than any other groups.
Likewise, in an area where there is a larger proprotion of poor whites than other groups, I'd expect most crime to be committed by whites.
How is that racist?

Now, onto those who have made the effort, worked hard at school, college and university, that they are less likely to find employment is likely due to racism in companies. They're comparing pretty much like for like, ie white person with a degree to black person with a degree.
However that's not the police, that's members of the general public who are interviewing people.

That is a totally different situation totally and should be addressed

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by zinglebarb

again I say just cuz someone is arrested as a suspect but is not charged does not ness make it a waste of time. You cant have a system where the law can not take action just in case it upsets a race. Often someone who has commited such crimes in the past looks like a good possible suspect. I have no problem with him being pulled in for questioning. Often this will be done without arrest if the guy/gal plays the game but if they refuse to help often an arrest is needed. I personally do not have a problem with this. I doubt the police arrest many people for absolutely no reason at all

Hence why I've also said about it being dispropotionate.
If most crimes in the area are due to black people, then you'd expect a high release rate than with other groups, however if the difference between the black release rate and other groups is substantial, that suggests that the police are bringing in loads of extra black people then letting them go.
That should be investigated to find out if it is legitimate or if it is harassment.

[Saaf_laandon_mo]

I have quiet a few black and asian friends who have been stopped/pulled over whilst driving for no apparent reason.

I have myself, been stopped in a van in Islington. When I asked the reason I was told there had been a burgulary in the nearby area. This was not a road block, there were other vans on the road, but as far as I could see I was the only one stopped. I did not make an issue out of it as I just wanted to be on my way.

I have also been pulled over, once in Dundee, I was driving a Mercedes 500 SL at the time, and numerous times in London whilst driving prestige/sports cars (all owned by me and legal eg MOT, and Tax present)

I also have a friend who is an officer on the London British Transport police. From what he tells me he approaches more black youngsters than white because he things they look more like trouble.

I live in South London and am of asian appearance. No criminal record, no cautions, no previous arrests etc etc

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by zinglebarb

That is a totally different situation totally and should be addressed

[Pia]

It's all a bit tedious hearing cries of racism all over the news all the time.

My 4 year old son came home from nursery yesterday singing "Baa baa white sheep" what the hell is that about... he's 4, the traditional nursery rhyme is baa baa black sheep, why is it alright to sing white, i'm white, i might find that offensive? But of course all of a sudden children's rhymes are changed because of course, that will stop the racist bullying in the playground.
And that wouldn't be the racial divide caused by stupid reports like this?!
IMO it's this sort of article which prmotes racism, has nobody thought that maybe, just maybe more black people needed arresting??

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Pia

It's all a bit tedious hearing cries of racism all over the news all the time.

My 4 year old son came home from nursery yesterday singing "Baa baa white sheep" what the hell is that about... he's 4, the traditional nursery rhyme is baa baa black sheep, why is it alright to sing white, i'm white, i might find that offensive? But of course all of a sudden children's rhymes are changed because of course, that will stop the racist bullying in the playground.
And that wouldn't be the racial divide caused by stupid reports like this?!
IMO it's this sort of article which prmotes racism, has nobody thought that maybe, just maybe more black people needed arresting??

Ask your nursery staff why. If they say it's so that blacks aren't offended, ask them who they consulted with in the black community to find out if they were offended or not, ask for copies of the complaints from blacks regarding this.
If they can't provide them (which of course they can't) demand they stop being so racist by patronising blacks and start reciting the rhyme properly.
Explain to them that it's people like them which cause racial tension.

I personally think there is a persecution complex floating around all ethnic groups. If anything happens its always because of race. Not because they were seen leaving a crack house or 6 months ago they kicked some poor chaps head in. Cry race hate just to get your own way is just plain wrong and imo as racist as someone calling someone names.

The issue of racial discrimination in the work place and respectable areas of life should not be tolerated full stop but again this needs ot be done carefully. There are cases where someone fails to get a job and then says its cuz of race but this has no foundation at all. Its always going to hard to judge when something is racist or not as lets face it the excuse of race has been abused by those the race laws are there to protect

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by jkat

wow looks like i was wrong reading some of the posts, so your saying blacks commit more crime than whites then? or are u saying "i'm not racist but"?

http://193.113.211.175/duty/duty_facts.html

no its racism, no buts.

Read the article you linked to. They are saying

LONDON (Reuters) - Discrimination is in part responsible for the disproportionate number of young black people going through the criminal justice system, a group of influential politicians said on Friday.

So, part of the problem is racism.

It is possible that the figures upon which they have formed their conclusions are slightly skewed by the fact that a lot of ethnic minorities (of all colours) live in deprived areas. There is often more crime in deprived areas (which may or may not be commited by Ethnic minorities, and may or may not be racially motivated). If an area is predominantly one colour, then it is more likely that someone of that colour will be picked up for crimes.

Also, it's worth noting that the CRE appear to be totally ignoring the fact that everyone in a deprived area will often get worse service, not just the ethnic minorities. If this is the case, then the CRE itself is being racist.

I am not saying Racism doesn't exist in our justice system. The people in our justice system are just that - people. It is an unfortunate fact that some will be racist. Where people are convicted and get a punishment just because of the colour and/or race, that is bad, and should be stamped out. If they did commit the crime, then, TBH, whatever their race and/or colour, they deserve punishment. The police and courts shouldn't treat them any differently because they are black, brown or any other colour.

BTW, I geniunely am not racist. While I try and respect different beliefs, I personally don't see that someone's colour or race should be an issue at all.

---------- Post added at 11:00 ---------- Previous post was at 10:57 ----------

Originally Posted by zinglebarb

again I say just cuz someone is arrested as a suspect but is not charged does not ness make it a waste of time. You cant have a system where the law can not take action just in case it upsets a race.

Good point.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by zinglebarb

I personally think there is a persecution complex floating around all ethnic groups. If anything happens its always because of race. Not because they were seen leaving a crack house or 6 months ago they kicked some poor chaps head in. Cry race hate just to get your own way is just plain wrong and imo as racist as someone calling someone names.

The thing is, it's not those who have been arrested/stopped and searched who wrote the report, nor is it from interviews with those arrested/stopped and searched, it's from the police records themselves.
Mustn't forget that.

Originally Posted by Zinglebarb

The issue of racial discrimination in the work place and respectable areas of life should not be tolerated full stop but again this needs ot be done carefully. There are cases where someone fails to get a job and then says its cuz of race but this has no foundation at all. Its always going to hard to judge when something is racist or not as lets face it the excuse of race has been abused by those the race laws are there to protect

Again, that report is using figures not anecdotal evidence, comparing employment status of graduates who are white with graduates who are black.
Unless the A levels or degrees black students do are prodominantly ones that employers scoff at such as media studies or Klingon, then without racism there should be equal chance of someone getting employment.
The fact there is a discrepency between blacks and other groups suggests that race plays a role and they are being discriminated against, which I totally agree with you on, should be stamped out (though not via "positive" discrimination)

[dcclanuk]

My mate is Muslim, and twice now he has been stopped and searched by the police!

Once at Euston Station. Once at Kings Cross Station!

He is 5ft 5 inches tall ish. Just coz he has a wire coming out of his bag into his coat, [his ARCHOS mp3 player thingy], it might look a bit dodgy!

My other friends [non-muslim] were with him. Does that mean the police are now racist towards muslims too?

LET THE POLICE FRIGGING DO THEIR JOB!