NTL at fault - not me!

[lostandconfused]

what would you sugest the agent does then?
customer comes through, demands to speak to a manager, wont give any account details or any details of the problem. you then get a supervisor on the line, the wont take the call as you have no details?

[Mr Clean]

I used to work in a call centre for *Cough*Broadband/Yahoo/Connect/DialUp and everything else. Was a shambles of a place and probably still is. But had some fun while working there.

But in my experience, and I practice this myself now, if you speak to the the agent on the phone with a nice polite tone and explain clearly your situation without getting irate. That CSA will probably go out of his way to assist you in fixing the fault.

If you fire in like a pitbull, barking like a fool, you'll get muted and laughed at by everyone around the agent with you on loudspeaker for all to hear. Then when you're done ranting and raving you'll get fobbed off because in my view, if you have no manners (no matter what the problem, length of problem, cause of problem) CSA wont want to help you.

I certainly wouldn't and didn't help anyone without manners. Obviously, sometimes someone would bark a little and you get them to calm down, explain the problem and fix it. Job done. Just took 5-6 minutes longer because the customer wanting to shout that it was MY fault his emails weren't downloading. Never mind the fact that he'd sent HIMSELF a 36Mb file attachment from his office Broadband to his home DialUp.

At the end of the day it's a case of treat people as you expect to be treated. Or suffer.

Enjoy.

JG

[Shaun]

Originally Posted by lostandconfused

customer comes through, demands to speak to a manager, wont give any account details or any details of the problem. you then get a supervisor on the line, the wont take the call as you have no details?

You and your manager should ask yourselves why the customer is so upset - they don't tend to just pick up the phone and shout for no reason.

---------- Post added at 14:56 ---------- Previous post was at 14:50 ----------

Originally Posted by jamgood

I certainly wouldn't and didn't help anyone without manners.

We're not talking about people with no manners - we're talking about upset customers that have been treated like **** by one of your collogues and are feeling helpless and annoyed.

If you guys want to blame someone for the upset call from a distraught customer then look at your colleagues.

If you seriously think fobbing the customer off Jamgood is going to fix the issue then you're a fool. The customer will just either call back and be even more upset or they'll take their business else where. I only hope that you experience it from the other side when the agent sits there laughing at you and see how you handle it. Are you telling me you'd not get annoyed?

I've worked in call centres and I appreciate where the customers were coming from.
I used to give them my full name, extension number and take their number and name so they feel they wouldn't get cut off/fobbed off again and 99% of the times they'd let me help them - to just fob them off is unforgivable.

[lostandconfused]

Originally Posted by Shaun

You and your manager should ask yourselves why the customer is so upset - they don't tend to just pick up the phone and shout for no reason.

yes i agree someone isnt going to be so upset without a reason, but if the customer wont tell the CS agent what the problem is, as they are demanding to speak to a manager then there isnt anything you can do,

the main reason a manager wont take a call without knowing what the reason is 99% of the time the agent can deal with it, i take a lot of calls a day and quite a few of those start the call with i want to speak to your manager, most people are fairly reasonable and once you have found out what the problem is, sorted it etc as you said give my name extention number they are happy, i rarely have to escalate a call, but many customers feel that speaking to a supervisor will get the problem sorted quicker.

but if a customer wont give you any information after all reasonable efforts to talk to the customer. what do you do? pass the call to a colleague, (generally it would be someone that has been there for a long time and would know as much as a manager anyway) and say they are a supervisor and get the problem sorted. or the only other option would be to release the call, you cant help they dont want you to help and you cant transfer the call to an actual manager.

also from a previous post, why should a customer be allowed to shout at anyone when they call a company? does it get your problem sorted quicker if you shout at someone? yes your probably frustrated and upset but that doesnt give you the right to shout at anyone.
if i were to call you up and scream and shout down the phone, i'd bet you wouldnt be too pleased about it, yet it seems ok to do it to someone that is employed to help you because they are working for a company that has ballsed up your bill/installation etc

[KaySquirrel]

Originally Posted by lostandconfused

but if a customer wont give you any information after all reasonable efforts to talk to the customer. what do you do? pass the call to a colleague, (generally it would be someone that has been there for a long time and would know as much as a manager anyway) and say they are a supervisor and get the problem sorted. or the only other option would be to release the call, you cant help they dont want you to help and you cant transfer the call to an actual manager.

Exactly right. Or a manager takes the call, having no info on it, and then tells the client they'll be put through to someone who can assist.. who ends up being a regular CSR anyway. Not sure why it makes such a difference to some people, but the change in attitude and manners when they deal with a manager (even one who sends 'em back to 1st line) is staggering.

Originally Posted by lostandconfused

also from a previous post, why should a customer be allowed to shout at anyone when they call a company? does it get your problem sorted quicker if you shout at someone? yes your probably frustrated and upset but that doesnt give you the right to shout at anyone.
if i were to call you up and scream and shout down the phone, i'd bet you wouldnt be too pleased about it, yet it seems ok to do it to someone that is employed to help you because they are working for a company that has ballsed up your bill/installation etc

I envy those blessed individuals who have worked CSR/tech support jobs and have been lucky enough never to have been shouted at, sworn at, or had death threats made against them because Mr. Client didn't understand a bill, or was unable to locate the Start button on their own computer despite being self-proclaimed computer experts. Or whose clients have only been irate because the company was actually at fault, and not because of an error or misinterpretation on their part.. However, just as you will find drivers who are rude/inconsiderate for no damn reason, you will sometimes get clients who feel entitled to abuse the individual answering that toll-free/freephone number for no rational reason.

Unless.. all those 'We will prosecute people found to be verbally or physically abusive towards our staff' signs that you see.. oh, EVERYWHERE, are really there just there for decoration?

[Shaun]

Originally Posted by lostandconfused

yes i agree someone isnt going to be so upset without a reason, but if the customer wont tell the CS agent what the problem is, as they are demanding to speak to a manager then there isnt anything you can do,

The customer is asking for a manager as generally they think the way they have been treated by one of your colleagues is disgraceful. Either they've been cut off, fobbed off, or they've had to call again as the agent hasn't done their job. I personally if this sort of thing happens to me want the individual monitored and retrained/reprimanded - you should too as it'll make you life easier. Can you honestly say that if the customer tells you about their issues you're going to report a colleague of yours to the management for what possibly could be the sack?

the main reason a manager wont take a call without knowing what the reason is 99% of the time the agent can deal with it,

The customer doesn't want that - they don't trust you IME because the previous agent wasn't trust worthy - and why should they? Trust is earned - that's why I used to give them my full name and contact details so they would begin to trust me and allow me to help them.

i take a lot of calls a day and quite a few of those start the call with i want to speak to your manager,

Have you ever asked yourself why?

most people are fairly reasonable and once you have found out what the problem is, sorted it etc as you said give my name extention number they are happy, i rarely have to escalate a call, but many customers feel that speaking to a supervisor will get the problem sorted quicker.

But why is that? is it because the previous experience with your company was poor? IME it is.

but if a customer wont give you any information after all reasonable efforts to talk to the customer. what do you do?

Have yo never had to call a company several times to get the job done and on the third attempt just thought - bugger this I want someone in charge to sort this, I've got better things to do than explain this for the third time?

If you've not then you're very lucky.

I'm one of the most polite people you'll meet but I won't suffer fools gladly any more, I've wasted too much time on them in the past. I'll be the best customer until I get treated badly then I'll insist on a manager to get things done - why should I be put out because someone in a company messes my account up with them? I shouldn't I'm the one paying - this is hoe most people are becoming now.

pass the call to a colleague, (generally it would be someone that has been there for a long time and would know as much as a manager anyway) and say they are a supervisor

So the customers' been messed about - potentially lied to before, has no trust in you because of it, which is why they want a manager and you think lying to them again is going to improve the situation?

the only other option would be to release the call

Who do you work for again - just so I know not to buy from them, if they teach you to release calls you can't handle I don't want to have anything to do with them. Your company should have robust processes in place for calls like this - generally they can be turned into a positive experience for both the customer and the company if a train competent manager takes the call on. Releasing them just makes things worse for both parties.

you cant help they dont want you to help

Again - why should they trust you to do what others probably haven't?

also from a previous post, why should a customer be allowed to shout at anyone when they call a company?

In all fairness shouting doesn't fix anything buy some people when they feel helpless don't know what else to do - a good agent should be able to resolve this.

You took the job on as did I when I worked in call centres and being shouted at occasionally is part of the job - you represent a company that by it's very nature will **** some people off. You're paid to clean the mess up - being shouted at is part of that process.

does it get your problem sorted quicker if you shout at someone?

I don't personally, but yes it does I've found as the company knows your annoyed.

yes your probably frustrated and upset but that doesn't give you the right to shout at anyone.

But it does give you the right to ask for a manager higher up who can take ownership of your problem and investigate your issue and fix it.

if i were to call you up and scream and shout down the phone, i'd bet you wouldnt be too pleased about it,

Pay me a decent wage for the hour and you can shout all you like - that's the job.

yet it seems ok to do it to someone that is employed to help you because they are working for a company that has ballsed up your bill/installation etc

Again I don't shout but I would be very angry and I probably would ask for a manger if you were the second person I'd had to call to get the one thing done. Again the issue is with your incompetent colleagues or rubbishing processes.

---------- Post added at 17:02 ---------- Previous post was at 16:45 ----------

Originally Posted by KaySquirrel

Not sure why it makes such a difference to some people, but the change in attitude and manners when they deal with a manager (even one who sends 'em back to 1st line) is staggering.

It's because they feel they now have someone who will take them seriously after being messed about for so long and sort their problem with the minimum of fuss - something they should have expected from the first agent before they had to call you.

Obviously this trust is mis-placed in your company as the manger by the sounds of it doesn't give a stuff and just fobs them back onto the 1st line agent.

If the manager took ownership of these issues and traced the problem and fixed it then you should get al ot less complaints - happier customers and a lot less work for the managers.

It really isn't the customers fault your companies messed up but they are expected to put up with it and explain themselfs for the second, third or even forth time as the previous agents haven't done their jobs. Hardly fair. -you're getting paid for being there the customer isn't

I envy those blessed individuals who have worked CSR/tech support jobs and have been lucky enough never to have been shouted at, sworn at,

They don't exist as this is what the job is about.

or had death threats made against them

[1]Did your boss terminate their account with you and inform the police? That was the process at all call centres where that happened that I've worked in.

because Mr. Client didn't understand a bill, or was unable to locate the Start button on their own computer despite being self-proclaimed computer experts.

Did you not realise that a support job involved dealing with idiots? I didn't think it was an IT industry secret. Again it's part of the course in your job. I'm not saying it's right but it is.

Or whose clients have only been irate because the company was actually at fault, and not because of an error or misinterpretation on their part..

A good agent should be able to identify if this is the case and show them where the problem is with tact so that they don't feel stupid but don't need to call again over such things. I'm sure you do this but there's no need for it to be a problem - it's part of the job. If they feel stupid next time they won't call they'll just go else where.

However, just as you will find drivers who are rude/inconsiderate for no damn reason, you will sometimes get clients who feel entitled to abuse the individual answering that toll-free/freephone number for no rational reason.

This is where the release button comes into your job - or it did mine. If they have no real reason for a complaint tell them so and say your goodbye - BUT only if they have no real reason - not being able to deal with their issue isn't a valid excuse.

Unless.. all those 'We will prosecute people found to be verbally or physically abusive towards our staff' signs that you see.. oh, EVERYWHERE, are really there just there for decoration?

Did you manager do as I said over the death threats? (See [1])If not then yes they are I'm afraid. A sign means nothing unless you enforce it.


I really think that people who work in call centres need to get over the "them and us" mentality that is forced on them by so many company's (I experience it myself from British Gas). 99.99% of customers are just trying to get a job done the same as you are, and really don't want to get messed about - if your company messes them about then try and help (I'm sure the posters here do) - they don't want to be on the phone complaining the same as you don' want to be there listening to it.

[KaySquirrel]

Re: Death threats -- yes, police were informed, recordings of the call (with threats) provided, accounts of abusive customers cancelled. That sort of thing did indeed happen.

My point was more that I've seen the threats and abuse start for no good reason and not ALWAYS because the company/previous CSR had done anything wrong. THAT is the sort of thing I find unacceptable.

I can understand wanting a manager after you've not been helped/fobbed off the first couple of times, definitely. (Personally, I ask nicely twice/give 2 chances to get things right -- and THEN I get upset and ask to be escalated, etc.) It's the first-time callers who feel more important than all the other customers and entitled to a senior tech/manager/someone higher up than the person who answers the phone the very first time around that puzzle me.

I think the reason that some people are irate (before even been given a REASON to be angry) is because when you deal with certain companies, you really DO have to kick up a fuss to be helped (or even listened to.) It's shameful that some places only give attention to the abusive customers, because the polite ones don't get taken serously. It ruins things for the call centres that value their customers.

Some companies only seem to reward negative behaviour (yell loud enough and you get a discount so they can get you off the line!) Then, when these people call companies where the CSRs/techs really DO care and want to do the best they can, the client is already acting abusive from the start, because in their experience, it's the only way they've been able to get help from other companies.

Dealing with idiots/angry clients/complaints is part of the job, yes. Being a verbal punching bag for a dissatisfied customer who doesn't know how to deal with another human being in a socially acceptable manner is NOT part of the job, as far as I am concerned. EVEN if he's been given a hard time by the company/previous CSR, I don't consider that a valid reason to act like a psychotic.

[lostandconfused]

Originally Posted by Shaun

The customer is asking for a manager as generally they think the way they have been treated by one of your colleagues is disgraceful. Either they've been cut off, fobbed off, or they've had to call again as the agent hasn't done their job. I personally if this sort of thing happens to me want the individual monitored and retrained/reprimanded - you should too as it'll make you life easier. Can you honestly say that if the customer tells you about their issues you're going to report a colleague of yours to the management for what possibly could be the sack?

.

yes i honestly can say that i would 100% report it, if its just a one off and an agent has made a genuine mistake then their manager would hopefully use common sense and not sack them there and then, but if its a reoccurring problem then to be honest i woulndt want them working in the same company

---------- Post added at 04:31 ---------- Previous post was at 04:30 ----------

Originally Posted by KaySquirrel

Dealing with idiots/angry clients/complaints is part of the job, yes. Being a verbal punching bag for a dissatisfied customer who doesn't know how to deal with another human being in a socially acceptable manner is NOT part of the job, as far as I am concerned. EVEN if he's been given a hard time by the company/previous CSR, I don't consider that a valid reason to act like a psychotic.

absolutly spot on

Originally Posted by lostandconfused

you do have the right to speak to a sueprvisor, the point i was trying to make was that you have to let the CSA try and deal with the issue first before asking / insisting on speaking to a supervisor as they wont be able to put you through.

The reason for my asking for a manager/supervisor may have no bearing on giving the csa the opportunity to resolve a problem, it may well be that the csa had previously told me a problem would be resolved, but experience post csa has shown them not to have done their job, now given that scenario they either get a manager/supervisor off their backside or they transfer me to retentions? point taken?

---------- Post added at 12:34 ---------- Previous post was at 12:32 ----------

Originally Posted by nffc

Yeah... if everyone did that, in most call centres there would be more supervisors than normal call agents.

And maybe if NTL got their act together there would be no need to ask for a manager/supervisor?

---------- Post added at 12:35 ---------- Previous post was at 12:34 ----------

Originally Posted by KaySquirrel

At a few call centres I've worked at, when a client was flat-out refusing to give any details and just demanding a supervisor, quite often they'd just be transferred to another agent who would pretend to be a manager to get details of the issue, and then (if necessary), would escalate to "the 3rd level manager", as we were not permitted to escalate issues without trying to assist/getting more information about the problem. I remember those methods when have to call customer service/tech support departments. I'd rather take a few moments to explain something than speak to a pretend manager!

Oh I understand now!
So next time I have an issue I will just call retentions!

[Russ]

Originally Posted by KaySquirrel

At a few call centres I've worked at, when a client was flat-out refusing to give any details and just demanding a supervisor, quite often they'd just be transferred to another agent who would pretend to be a manager to get details of the issue,

That used to happen quite regularly at ntl's tech support up until a few years ago and going on reliable reports, still does happen. Unless teams are regularly monitored, it will continue to happen as it would in any such callcentre.

Originally Posted by Russ B

That used to happen quite regularly at ntl's tech support up until a few years ago and going on reliable reports, still does happen. Unless teams are regularly monitored, it will continue to happen as it would in any such callcentre.

Maybe now that kaysquirrel has blown the cover on this sham people will just call retentions, putting up with a csa who does not know how to deal with a problem is one thing, I would not put up with a lying one.

[KaySquirrel]

Originally Posted by arcamalpha2004

Maybe now that kaysquirrel has blown the cover on this sham people will just call retentions, putting up with a csa who does not know how to deal with a problem is one thing, I would not put up with a lying one.

Just for clarity, I do not, nor have I ever, worked for NTL.

[lostandconfused]

Originally Posted by arcamalpha2004

Oh I understand now!
So next time I have an issue I will just call retentions!

any why would retentions be any different? they have the same training as other staff and not all of them are supervisors either

[KaySquirrel]

Originally Posted by lostandconfused

any why would retentions be any different? they have the same training as other staff and not all of them are supervisors either

I'm guessing that arcamalpha2004 meant they'd call retentions to cancel instead of contacting CS to try to fix an issue? I don't think NTL has given any indication of caring about turnover.. have they?

Here's another 'sham i can blow the cover on' (I love that, it makes me sound all investigative-reporter-y, when it's really just common sense!):

Customer Services reps are logged into a call distribution queue, and answer calls.
Faults reps are logged into logged into a call distribution queue, and answer calls.
Retentions reps logged into a call distribution queue, and answer calls.

If NTL wanted everyone to get to speak to a manager right away, managers would.. (wait for it, now!) be logged into a call distribution queue, and answer calls.

Ignoring the debate of whether or not the customer should be able to speak to a manager right away/without giving the CSR any information, the fact is that NTL doesn't want managers answering calls. If they wanted to do away with CSRs and have a herd of managers answering customer queries, they would. Hell, why not just make all the CSRs officially managers and end this whole debate once and for all!?

[Shaun]

Originally Posted by KaySquirrel

the fact is that NTL doesn't want managers answering calls.

I don't give a stuff what Ntl want - or any other company- I'm the customer here and I want service.

If I've been messed around, been lied to and played, telephone ping pong for 1.5 hours I want satisfaction If that goes against want the almighty Ntl wants then that's just tough*.

Have you guys never heard of the saying - (S)he who pays the piper, calls the tune.

If the company wants my business then they'll have to jump to it.

*and it was I dumped that bunch of jokers a long time ago - them and Barclay's, Dell, Sainsbury's, Orange. In fact any company who's staff think I'll put up wit their crap. When they can show me they've improved they'll get my custom back (Vonage, Capital One, Sky).

Edit-

Customer Services reps are logged into a call distribution queue, and answer calls.
Faults reps are logged into logged into a call distribution queue, and answer calls.
Retentions reps logged into a call distribution queue, and answer calls.

Oh and if the call centre is run properly the management (well some of them) should be plugged into a hunt group (read: "call distribution queue") for easy access by the agents.