another digi camera (SLR) thread

[danielf]

Originally Posted by andygrif

Absolutely, if you're looking at that end of the range, make sure you pitch it against the Canon 350D, which is a lovely little unit. Don't put too much emphasis on the kit lens (the one that it comes with) as generally these are terrible compared with what's available. Most pros would never buy a camera with an included lens - but saying that the kit lens on the 300D and 350D is pretty good as they go - but still ripe for replacement.

http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/1870.htm

Is a review of this particular 18-70 kit lens, which sounds good to me (though I understand Ken Rockwell is a bit of a character). But mostly, I like the range on this lens, and a similar range lens plus EOS body will set you back £1000, as opposed to £650 for the D50 with the 18-70 lens.

At the end of the day, I don't see us spending £500 on a single lens. Reality is we don't use the camera that often (holidays mostly), but we tend to go far away (China this autumn). So we're looking for something decent, with control, but it's not a hobby per se...

Originally Posted by andygrif

But as I said before, it's all personal choice - see which one you feel is most comfortable in your hands, which one is easiest to use and which one takes the better shots. If you go somewhere like Jessops, ask them to set up both cameras to the same settings and take a shot on each - if you've got a memory card lying around take it with you, get them to transfer the images to your card and take them home and study which one looks best.

Yes, we will definitely do that... We're not spending £700-1000 on a whim

[andygrif]

Originally Posted by danielf

Is a review of this particular 18-70 kit lens, which sounds good to me (though I understand Ken Rockwell is a bit of a character). But mostly, I like the range on this lens, and a similar range lens plus EOS body will set you back £1000, as opposed to £650 for the D50 with the 18-70 lens.

Looks reasonable...much prettier body than the Canon kit lens too!! Sounds about the same quality though.

BTW you can pick up the 350D for under £700 with kit lens at 7dayshop. It looks like they've exhausted their stocks of older 300D's as they were selling those for about 400 quid at one point! I've seen the D50 with kit lens (not the one you're talking about) for about 50 quid less than the Canon - which is a good deal.

Originally Posted by danielf

At the end of the day, I don't see us spending £500 on a single lens. Reality is we don't use the camera that often (holidays mostly), but we tend to go far away (China this autumn). So we're looking for something decent, with control, but it's not a hobby per se...

Given what you've just said, I would look seriously at a high-end compact as well as DSLR's. Is there a particular reason why you're looking at DSLR's right now?

SLR's put you in control of the camera and don't fiddle with the image too much, whereas compacts do most of the thinking for you, letting you get on with taking shots. The actual image quality (in terms of sensors and MP's) will not differ that much - in fact the sensors and processors on some of the Canon Powershot models are the same ones as in the DSLRs, but fit in your pocket.

If you're concern is putting attachments on the end, you can do that with many compacts too, including things like polarizers etc.

I'm all for singing the praises of SLRs as loud as possible, but from what you've said it sounds like a compact might be more suitable for you.

[SMHarman]

Originally Posted by danielf

http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/1870.htm

Is a review of this particular 18-70 kit lens, which sounds good to me (though I understand Ken Rockwell is a bit of a character). But mostly, I like the range on this lens, and a similar range lens plus EOS body will set you back £1000, as opposed to £650 for the D50 with the 18-70 lens.

Kelkoo immediatly comes up with the EOS300D and 18-55 EF-S lens for about £650, a long way from the £1000 and on the same money as the D50. The EF-S lens is not backward compatible, though has been made to provide that day to day lens that most digital owners need when they upgrade from wet media due to the optical length change. I belive most reviews of it are favourable.

Though you already have a pile of Nikon lenses and kit, though the flash guns often dont work on the digital ranges, My speedlite 430EZ will not work on the EOS300/350 I would need a 5XX model.

[danielf]

Originally Posted by andygrif

Given what you've just said, I would look seriously at a high-end compact as well as DSLR's. Is there a particular reason why you're looking at DSLR's right now?

SLR's put you in control of the camera and don't fiddle with the image too much, whereas compacts do most of the thinking for you, letting you get on with taking shots. The actual image quality (in terms of sensors and MP's) will not differ that much - in fact the sensors and processors on some of the Canon Powershot models are the same ones as in the DSLRs, but fit in your pocket.

If you're concern is putting attachments on the end, you can do that with many compacts too, including things like polarizers etc.

I'm all for singing the praises of SLRs as loud as possible, but from what you've said it sounds like a compact might be more suitable for you.

It's a tradeoff really. I would probably be happy with a high end compact, but the GF wants control over the camera (she has on occasion taken the photos at people's weddings etc), and the possibility to add kit if desired. That doesn't mean we will be spending £1000s on kit though.
__________________

Originally Posted by SMHarman

Kelkoo immediatly comes up with the EOS300D and 18-55 EF-S lens for about £650, a long way from the £1000 and on the same money as the D50. The EF-S lens is not backward compatible, though has been made to provide that day to day lens that most digital owners need when they upgrade from wet media due to the optical length change. I belive most reviews of it are favourable.

Though you already have a pile of Nikon lenses and kit, though the flash guns often dont work on the digital ranges, My speedlite 430EZ will not work on the EOS300/350 I would need a 5XX model.

Erm, yes. It appears that the one I saw with a 18-70 (or similar lens) had a rather expensive lens. Still, the Nikon works out a bit cheaper/gets you a lens with a bigger range for the same price. The lenses I have are Pentax btw.

But, we haven't decided either way yet. We haven't handled one yet...

[SMHarman]

Originally Posted by danielf

It's a tradeoff really. I would probably be happy with a high end compact, but the GF wants control over the camera (she has on occasion taken the photos at people's weddings etc), and the possibility to add kit if desired. That doesn't mean we will be spending £1000s on kit though.

You should take a look at the Cannon G range of compacts.
http://consumer.usa.canon.com/ir/con...&modelid=10463
(sorry could not be bothered to find a UK link)

The G6 is 7.1MP and has a high level of control. I'm amazed at the level of control my Powershot A80 (the A95 is the nearest comparable available). I've used it a lot in a light tent with fluro bulbs for web product photography and it comes with settings for this all built in and the ability to store them in a Custom setting so no need to reconfigure each time I want to take more.

My biggest complaint on the PowerShot when compared to a wet SLR is the shutter speed / time to ready the next shot. Most of the time it is not noticable, but as an example, when at Disney last weekend trying to get shots of my son with the characters, the EOS10 won hands down as you could click, click, click without the queue getting impatient, on a digital camera it was more click, wait, click, oh that would be a better shot but I am waiting for it to save / prepare for the next shot, click. I think the G series and certainly the EOS series are far better for this.

[andygrif]

Originally Posted by SMHarman

Though you already have a pile of Nikon lenses and kit, though the flash guns often dont work on the digital ranges, My speedlite 430EZ will not work on the EOS300/350 I would need a 5XX model.

You don't have to get the 550 or 580EX guns (although I've got the 550EX and it's just wonderful). You can use any of the EX, but not the EZ, models. If you can find an old one, the 380EX is excellent value for money second hand, but you can also use the 220EX (new costs less than 100 quid) but the best all-rounder is the 420EX, as it gives you a reasonable amount of control, plus options to upgrade (you can remotely trigger a 420EX with a 550 or 580EX) and you can pick them up used for about 120-40 quid.

Originally Posted by danielf

Erm, yes. It appears that the one I saw with a 18-70 (or similar lens) had a rather expensive lens. Still, the Nikon works out a bit cheaper/gets you a lens with a bigger range for the same price. The lenses I have are Pentax btw.

Out of curiosity, how much have you been quoted for the kit with the 70mm lens? I've seen it for about £770 (which is £170 more than the standard kit - I wonder if you'd really appreciate the extra 15mm at that price?) It's also about £170 more than the Canon 350D, which offers an extra 2 million pixels for the lower price - and the kit lens on that is probably almost comparable to the DX18-70 lens.

I told you that you're either vehmently Nikon or Canon, and I'm pushing you towards Canon without even realising it! Sorry...I just think it's a better package all round.

[danielf]

Originally Posted by andygrif

Out of curiosity, how much have you been quoted for the kit with the 70mm lens? I've seen it for about £770 (which is £170 more than the standard kit - I wonder if you'd really appreciate the extra 15mm at that price?) It's also about £170 more than the Canon 350D, which offers an extra 2 million pixels for the lower price - and the kit lens on that is probably almost comparable to the DX18-70 lens.

I told you that you're either vehmently Nikon or Canon, and I'm pushing you towards Canon without even realising it! Sorry...I just think it's a better package all round.

£650 (on the D50) which looks like a good deal.

The Canon 55mm is priced at £640 on the same site

But, like I said, we've not decided yet. One other reason for leaning towards Nikon is that the GF used to own an EOS 35mm which she didn't like (she thought it had too many automated programs), and swapped it for her Mum's Olympus.

[andygrif]

That's a good deal on the Nikon. Do you know if it has spot-metering? that's one thing that annoys me about my 300D is that it doesn't, but it's not a major inconvenience.

[danielf]

Originally Posted by andygrif

That's a good deal on the Nikon. Do you know if it has spot-metering? that's one thing that annoys me about my 300D is that it doesn't, but it's not a major inconvenience.

Graham seems to think it has

Originally Posted by graham

From what I've heard the D50 may have a slightly lower build quality than the D70s, but the hardware is slightly better, the spot meter sensor is wider (thus less accurate) and you don't get as much control over EV compensation (just checking that site you gave, it gives 1EV steps instead of 1/3EV steps. The 70s has more controls (and IMO more control) the 50 appears to be simpler to use, but with less functions.

[andygrif]

The one stop EV comp is rather annoying, I don't think I could live with that. I can live without spot metering most of time however!

[SMHarman]

Originally Posted by andygrif

The one stop EV comp is rather annoying, I don't think I could live with that. I can live without spot metering most of time however!

What level of AEB does it have, you could use that instead, but you would need 3 times the data space.

[andygrif]

The 300D has 1/3rd stop increments, which is peachy - 1 stop might be limiting, but there's always workarounds I guess. I'm sticking with Canon for now! Actually I'm probably going to upgrade to a 20D by the end of the year.

[Bifta]

Originally Posted by andygrif

The 300D has 1/3rd stop increments, which is peachy - 1 stop might be limiting, but there's always workarounds I guess. I'm sticking with Canon for now! Actually I'm probably going to upgrade to a 20D by the end of the year.

Have you tried the 'undutchables' firmware on your 300d yet?

http://www.gpi.dk/300d/

[SMHarman]

Originally Posted by andygrif

The 300D has 1/3rd stop increments, which is peachy - 1 stop might be limiting, but there's always workarounds I guess. I'm sticking with Canon for now! Actually I'm probably going to upgrade to a 20D by the end of the year.

As does my baby Canon A85, as I was saying the software and user interface of the EOS has trickled all the way down the range, it has a massive amount of functionality for what should be a point and click.

The point and click bit is something I love about my EOS10, you ask someone to take a picture with it who's never used (or not used a SLR for a long time) and they look scared, but if it is set to green then it is no more complicated than a compact, they soon realise that and then fall in love with how much easier the handling is, especially with the Grip plate attached.

[Graham]

Originally Posted by andygrif

The one stop EV comp is rather annoying, I don't think I could live with that. I can live without spot metering most of time however!

Spot metering tends to be one of those things you either use a lot or not at all.

I've also noticed, however, that the D50 doesn't have Depth of Field preview which is something I'd definitely want.