Relationships and religion - Page 2

Russ · 02-10-2003, 16:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Escapee

I don't want to take this away from my original question, but the person that I started this thread about said they did not believe in sex before marraige. They have allready broken that rule but still go to church, so I guess she can be classed as a bit hypocritical.

That's one of the biggest misconceptions about Christians. We aren't perfect!! We still sin! Yes I've had sex since becoming a Christian and I'm not married. Does that make me a hypocrite? I don't think so. It would be a different matter if I went around warning other people not to do it whilst I was happily getting my oats every night. We get tempted, occasionally it gets too strong for us, but as as long as we are truly sorry for what we have done (and not just 'sorry' for the sake of gaining forgiveness so God wipes the slate clean, then get on with sinning again) we are forgiven.

Escapee · 02-10-2003, 19:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ D

That's one of the biggest misconceptions about Christians. We aren't perfect!! We still sin! Yes I've had sex since becoming a Christian and I'm not married. Does that make me a hypocrite? I don't think so. It would be a different matter if I went around warning other people not to do it whilst I was happily getting my oats every night. We get tempted, occasionally it gets too strong for us, but as as long as we are truly sorry for what we have done (and not just 'sorry' for the sake of gaining forgiveness so God wipes the slate clean, then get on with sinning again) we are forgiven.

I accept the bit about not being perfect, it's totally understandable. The bit I can't understand is the tempted occassionally bit! How would you class occassionally? would it be once a week, once a month, once a year etc.

I think you can see what I am getting at, it's not a matter of trying to wind anyone up with my question but perhaps a christian would be unable to stay on the right path on a weekly basis. (sex every Friday night for example) Perhaps they would be honestly sorry for what they have done, but would it be right to expect forgivness for these acts commited on a weekly basis?

I am not trying to stray off my original topic, it does help me understand my original question.

**Chris** · 02-10-2003, 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Escapee

I accept the bit about not being perfect, it's totally understandable. The bit I can't understand is the tempted occassionally bit! How would you class occassionally? would it be once a week, once a month, once a year etc.

I think you can see what I am getting at, it's not a matter of trying to wind anyone up with my question but perhaps a christian would be unable to stay on the right path on a weekly basis. (sex every Friday night for example) Perhaps they would be honestly sorry for what they have done, but would it be right to expect forgivness for these acts commited on a weekly basis?

I am not trying to stray off my original topic, it does help me understand my original question.

I would say me and my missus felt tempted just about every day before our wedding. It was tough at times but we never gave in...

To widen the discussion of temptation a little (without wishing to stray off-topic), a christian could be tempted to look at p0rn, especially in this internet age where it's easy to find for free. Knowing it's wrong it might not be a problem for this person for months at a time and then suddenly the temptation starts. If this is hard to understand, it's because it's not just about physical urges. We believe there is a real Devil, who knows the way we want to live and sets out to draw us off-course.

Escapee · 02-10-2003, 19:33

towny said "We believe there is a real Devil, who knows the way we want to live and sets out to draw us off-course."

That'll be me then

Funny thing was someone from her church was on the phone to her preaching about relationships with non-christians while we were out, he was warning her about the white devil.

I thought the best part was that the guy actually fancied her and has been asking her out for a while and she has been turning him down! I guess religion can be used as a lever to your own advantage sometimes.

that's not a dig just an observation in my recent involvement.

Atomic22 · 02-10-2003, 19:40

i always thought "in the eyes of the lord we are all the same" so therefore making non-christians no-no's for romances etc because they are non christians says we are not all the same in your eyes.
sticking religiously to commandment number one and breaking others when you feel like it is also hypocrisy.
when i met my girl i wasn't thinking hmmmm shes nice but if she isnt a christian she can take a hike...
people slating others for being christians are as bad as christians slating others for not believing..
bigotry works both ways
love works only one way

kronas · 02-10-2003, 19:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Escapee

I thought the best part was that the guy actually fancied her and has been asking her out for a while and she has been turning him down! I guess religion can be used as a lever to your own advantage sometimes.

that's not a dig just an observation in my recent involvement.

well thats the abuse in power position i talk about that happens in religion but thats for another thread

escapee ask yourself this do you really like her ? take the religion factor out for a moment and concentrate on the positives do you think them alone will make this relationship blossom ? if the answer is yes then you need to look in to a 2 way tolerance system where she can continue to do what she does with the church and you having your own thoughts processes as long as both of you dont force anything on to each other all should be fine

relationships in a BF GF manner are awkward but working out things can make things happen and to your advantage

obviously i dont know anything about you two but its just my opinion you can choose to ignore it or tell me to shut up

Escapee · 02-10-2003, 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronas

well thats the abuse in power position i talk about that happens in religion but thats for another thread

escapee ask yourself this do you really like her ? take the religion factor out for a moment and concentrate on the positives do you think them alone will make this relationship blossom ? if the answer is yes then you need to look in to a 2 way tolerance system where she can continue to do what she does with the church and you having your own thoughts processes as long as both of you dont force anything on to each other all should be fine

relationships in a BF GF manner are awkward but working out things can make things happen and to your advantage

obviously i dont know anything about you two but its just my opinion you can choose to ignore it or tell me to shut up

I will not choose to ignore you at all Kronas. I think the big differences between our backgrounds have actually given us many points for discussion so far, but the religion discussion has not really been discussed to any great extent. I don't know what would happen if she was given the choice between me and religion, but she did miss her church meetings for three weeks after she met me. I did not directly have any input/influence into these actions, she mentioned it after a few weeks.

Apparently her former husband was very religious, and slept with every girl he could get his hands on! That also worried me about the aids issue, I hadn't given it great thought due to her religious background.

PS: Kronas you will probably know why it's such a worry after the info in my PM to you.

kronas · 02-10-2003, 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Escapee

I will not choose to ignore you at all Kronas. I think the big differences between our backgrounds have actually given us many points for discussion so far, but the religion discussion has not really been discussed to any great extent. I don't know what would happen if she was given the choice between me and religion, but she did miss her church meetings for three weeks after she met me. I did not directly have any input/influence into these actions, she mentioned it after a few weeks.

Apparently her former husband was very religious, and slept with every girl he could get his hands on! That also worried me about the aids issue, I hadn't given it great thought due to her religious background.

PS: Kronas you will probably know why it's such a worry after the info in my PM to you.

ok mate ill get back to you as soon as i can im going out now but remember if you dont like my advice just say so im only telling you what i think is right

**Chris** · 02-10-2003, 21:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atomic22

i always thought "in the eyes of the lord we are all the same" so therefore making non-christians no-no's for romances etc because they are non christians says we are not all the same in your eyes.
sticking religiously to commandment number one and breaking others when you feel like it is also hypocrisy.
when i met my girl i wasn't thinking hmmmm shes nice but if she isnt a christian she can take a hike...
people slating others for being christians are as bad as christians slating others for not believing..
bigotry works both ways
love works only one way

Well, you completely misunderstood what I said. At no point have I said, or even implied, that I would never have married a non-Christian because she was different to me, or not as good as me. What I actually said (discussing my wife) was:

Quote:

Originally Posted by towny

I would not have married her if I thought she would regard me more highly than she does God, and I know the same is true for her. This, ultimately, is why when considering something as serious as marriage I can't see how a relationship between a committed Christian and someone of another (or no particular) faith could work.

And on the subject of temptation, or breaking commandments, I said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by towny

I would say me and my missus felt tempted just about every day before our wedding. It was tough at times but we never gave in...

I know that accusing Christians of hypocrisy is a fun pastime - you'd just love it if there was an easy way to explain away what we believe. But I am at a loss to understand how anything Russ or I have posted in this thread has given you the impression that we go sinning 'when we feel like it'.

You are right, bigotry does work both ways. However I think in this case, for being so determined to see hypocrisy where there plainly is none, it's you that's the bigot.

Atomic22 · 03-10-2003, 19:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by towny

I know that accusing Christians of hypocrisy is a fun pastime - you'd just love it if there was an easy way to explain away what we believe. But I am at a loss to understand how anything Russ or I have posted in this thread has given you the impression that we go sinning 'when we feel like it'.

You are right, bigotry does work both ways. However I think in this case, for being so determined to see hypocrisy where there plainly is none, it's you that's the bigot.

you have just proved yourself towny by assuming that because i said your views were hypocritical and bigoted that i am not a practising christian when you know nothing about me, just because i see you as a hypocrite does not mean i am having a go at christians and you really need to look with better eyes than the ones you have that only let you see the blinkered paranoid view that everyone is out to get you or put you down when the intention was never there in the first place.

**Maggy** · 03-10-2003, 20:02

Incog puts her hands over her eyes and wonders if any arg...discussion on religion can ever be civilised.

I'm an athiest.However I would never diss someone because they have a faith or religion.Please lets all just accept each other's different religions,faiths and whatever and just get over it.

Incog.

**Chris** · 03-10-2003, 22:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atomic22

you have just proved yourself towny by assuming that because i said your views were hypocritical and bigoted that i am not a practising christian when you know nothing about me, just because i see you as a hypocrite does not mean i am having a go at christians and you really need to look with better eyes than the ones you have that only let you see the blinkered paranoid view that everyone is out to get you or put you down when the intention was never there in the first place.

So are you a practising Christian? Like Russ and I have said, we try, we make mistakes, we get forgiven, we carry on. We love our Lord and we're not afraid to stand up and say so. What about you?

It's interesting that in that entire sentence above you didn't address even one of the points I thought we were trying to discuss, preferring instead to just have a dig. You suggest there is something wrong with me for 'assuming' you were having a go at me, then not three lines later you confirm that you do indeed think I am a hypocite.

So, could you make up your mind, am I a hypocrite or not? If I am, would you do me the courtesy of explaining why you think so.

**Chris** · 03-10-2003, 22:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Incognitas

Incog puts her hands over her eyes and wonders if any arg...discussion on religion can ever be civilised.

I'm an athiest.However I would never diss someone because they have a faith or religion.Please lets all just accept each other's different religions,faiths and whatever and just get over it.

Incog.

Incog, civilised discussion about religious things is possible ... I could reel off a long list of members of this forum with whom I have disagreed yet without coming to verbal blows. I have respect for them and I believe they respect me. There are more people that are civilised than are not. Don't lose heart!

03-10-2003, 23:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by towny

Incog, civilised discussion about religious things is possible ... I could reel off a long list of members of this forum with whom I have disagreed yet without coming to verbal blows. I have respect for them and I believe they respect me. There are more people that are civilised than are not. Don't lose heart!

that struck a chord with me towny, I, for one, respect that you are objective in the post you are replying to. You do try to discuss the issue, without labelling the poster.

- and you never impose your view, just introduce it - nice one!

**Maggy** · 04-10-2003, 00:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by towny

Incog, civilised discussion about religious things is possible ... I could reel off a long list of members of this forum with whom I have disagreed yet without coming to verbal blows. I have respect for them and I believe they respect me. There are more people that are civilised than are not. Don't lose heart!

Really?You think so.It's not what I've observed about the various postings about religion and christianity in recent days.

I thought the multi-ethnic teaching of religion was supposed to engender harmony as well as understanding but I've not been heartened by any indications that this is the case.

Mind the hardest and deepest squab...errr discussions about religion do seem to be between differing branches of the Christian faiths.Or maybe any discussion about the Hindu,Sikh and Muslim faiths might be seen as being possibly racist and the thought of the ensuing row err...sorry,discussion might be explosive.

But you are right,there are civilised folk who can discuss religion in a positive manner.However not many seem to take part in the religious discussions here,which do seem to have become jeering sessions lately.

Incog who got the RE prize when she left school.