Breaking Rocks for yobs

Originally Posted by Escapee

I do go along with the idea of making young offenders work to the benefit of the community. I see no reason why they shouldn't wear uniforms like mentioned in the article, it would possibly bring shame on a percentage who wouldn't want to be in that situation again.

Whilst I agree with making young offenders "work off" their crimes because that has been shown to have a better rehabilitative effect, I do not agree with this idea of uniforms (especially in bright colours)

Humiliating someone is *never* a good idea to try to get them to behave in a certain way and I also feel that this is more likely to be used as a "look, we're doing something" gimmick by the government because they can have photo opportunities of Ministers standing next to prisoners saying "See, we're tough on crime" even though there's no proof from America (where they use such schemes) that there's actually any positive rehabilitative benefit from it.
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Originally Posted by Paul

I have (and no doubt will keep having to) blamed lazy and ignorant parenting for a lot of the problems people are facing from abusive kids these days. Not all kids are bad because not all kids have parents that allow them to go further and further off the rails.

This is a little off topic, but on a side note, although I'm usually against "reality TV" style programmes (because they're very often simply "low rent TV"), I do think that the influx of programmes like "House of tiny tearaways", "Supernanny" (or whaever they're called!) etc are actually a good thing

Hopefully at least *some* of the people who watch them will pick up some tips and bring their children up better than they may have done otherwise since there's no real "how to bring up kids" information easily available.
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Originally Posted by Shaun

I've said for a long time those at our local jail could be used to sort through our recycling rather than pay someone to do it. Would that be demeaning enough for everyone?

So you want a bunch of *criminals* to be searching through paperwork that people may have thrown away that could contain bank account, credit card or other sensitive information...???

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by Graham

Whilst I agree with making young offenders "work off" their crimes because that has been shown to have a better rehabilitative effect, I do not agree with this idea of uniforms (especially in bright colours)

Humiliating someone is *never* a good idea to try to get them to behave in a certain way and I also feel that this is more likely to be used as a "look, we're doing something" gimmick by the government because they can have photo opportunities of Ministers standing next to prisoners saying "See, we're tough on crime" even though there's no proof from America (where they use such schemes) that there's actually any positive rehabilitative benefit from it.
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This is a little off topic, but on a side note, although I'm usually against "reality TV" style programmes (because they're very often simply "low rent TV"), I do think that the influx of programmes like "House of tiny tearaways", "Supernanny" (or whaever they're called!) etc are actually a good thing

Hopefully at least *some* of the people who watch them will pick up some tips and bring their children up better than they may have done otherwise since there's no real "how to bring up kids" information easily available.
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So you want a bunch of *criminals* to be searching through paperwork that people may have thrown away that could contain bank account, credit card or other sensitive information...???

There was something on the news within the last few months, mentioning that prisoners were recycling and obtaining bank account info at the same time.

Bright pink, green and yellow costumes with a tall yellow pointy hat for clothes as far as I'm concerned. Why not humilate them for ther crimes!

Let's remember that 90% of young people are not thugs,bullies,criminals,vandals or any other kind of misfit.Let's rejoice that so many of them are respectable members of society.:


The 10% that are, deserve everything that the legal system deems correct for them provided their human rights are observed.

Otherwise I have little to add in this matter.

[Graham M]

Originally Posted by Shaun

I've got to agree with here I'm afraid, most of the Kids I know go to bed when they feel like it, eat when they feel like it and cause trouble when they feel like it. Some as young as 6/7 are allowed to stay up until they fall as sleep watching the telly, how on earth are they suppose to concentrate at school the next day?

Oh and how many teenagers just come and go as they please with no curfew, no wonder their families cant keep track of them

Completely agree with you on all of those points Shaun, its the same around here too

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by Incognitas

Let's remember that 90% of young people are not thugs,bullies,criminals,vandals or any other kind of misfit.Let's rejoice that so many of them are respectable members of society.:


The 10% that are, deserve everything that the legal system deems correct for them provided their human rights are observed.

Otherwise I have little to add in this matter.

I do agree with you that 90% are not thugs, bullies, criminals or vandals....However the 10% that are represent quite a large number, I am sure someone will be able to quote figures for school leavers. We must also remember that many of these young offenders re-offend often on much larger scales of crime, and the 10% figure is a rolling figure being added to every year.

I guess I am really saying that young offenders dont just have a timeclock that stops them from being bad, they can if not corrected progress to more serious crimes and often do, after honing their skills with other offenders.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Graham

Humiliating someone is *never* a good idea to try to get them to behave in a certain way

Why?

I reckon their punishment should be to continuously walk up and down Swansea's Oxford Street wearing a T-shirt saying "Yes I have had an accident or injury in the last 3 years - come and get me".

Originally Posted by Escapee

I do agree with you that 90% are not thugs, bullies, criminals or vandals....However the 10% that are represent quite a large number, I am sure someone will be able to quote figures for school leavers. We must also remember that many of these young offenders re-offend often on much larger scales of crime, and the 10% figure is a rolling figure being added to every year.

I guess I am really saying that young offenders dont just have a timeclock that stops them from being bad, they can if not corrected progress to more serious crimes and often do, after honing their skills with other offenders.

Yes but by concentrating on the bad eggs we tend to ignore the better behaved.If we are going to have the stick effect for offenders perhaps we need the carrot for the 90% that deserve some sort of reward for being well behaved instead of being tarred with the same brush as the yobs.To keep banging on about yob culture is to give the nicer teens the idea that no one cares about them and to give so much of the public a fear of any group of teens who just happen to be going about their lawful business.

Before we get too excited about 90% this and 10% that, let's remember that reality may not be quite as we assume. Below a link to a Home Office survey that helps to get figures into proportion.

Young people, crime & anti-social behaviour

I think our problem here is once again negative news is news and positive news is not good news both for our media tabloids and even the broadsheets and sensational TV items. We know from everyday experience there are youths who make a positive contribution to society and these individuals ought to be given more praise from our dear friends in the media.

Given there are issues with what seems or appears to be a considerable mischevious segment of youth we need to ask a number questions. What can be done to diminish reliance on banned substances how can this cancer be routed out from society? What can be done to advise parents who have no parenting skills or just plain anti-social themselves to raise their children in an acceptable manner? What can be done to encourage youths to become more involved in sports and other worthy possibilites rather than hanging around street corners bored out of their tiny minds. In other words it's fine to have anti-social behaviour orders, good thing, but we should not ignore the challenge of providing worthwhile activities for youth.

As far as providing uniforms, bright pink etc? I'm not sure, it's an idea being floated, people want the government to be firm but how far can it intervene? Government is investing in better neighbourhoods and raising local initiatives but in the end is it not communities themselves who should be more involved. Maybe, if everyone put their TVs into skips we may find a way of communicating with each other again!

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by Escapee

Quote: Ms Blears also said she wanted parents to enforce sensible bedtimes for children and restore "structure" to family life, such as eating meals together.

Oh thats the answer then, early to bed and eat meals with your parents and you cant go far wrong.

'Parents'-plural?..........Thats asking for a lot isn't it Whats the rate of single parent families running at atm?

[Chimaera]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

'Parents'-plural?..........Thats asking for a lot isn't it Whats the rate of single parent families running at atm?

I've searched around for single parent statistics but couldn't find anything meaningful. But not all single parents raise hoodie wearing drug peddling lawbreakers!

I think we also need to consider the message we give, as adults, to young people as they are growing up.

The distinction between what is criminal or not, has become blurred. Otherwise perfectly law abiding citizens think nothing of saving a 'few bob' by buying smuggled booze, or tobacco, for example. We condone the fencing of stolen goods & the proliferation of pirate & counterfeit goods, by buying them at 'boot sales'. The definition of the words lying & stealing, appears to have changed....

Then the 'planet of grab' society we live in, appears to offer an insecure future where hard work & polite behaviour are rewarded by mediocrity, while the brash & rude, curse & cheat their way to the top.

Where icons of everything fashionable & desireable are shoved in your face 24 hours a day. Where having the right labels, the latest gadget, the right 'look' is considered more important than anything - especially more important than courtesy, or consideration for others, lets push people out of the way to get what we want...

I'm amazed how any young people manage to survive all that & get anywhere near 'decent & honest', myself.

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by homealone

I think we also need to consider the message we give, as adults, to young people as they are growing up.

The distinction between what is criminal or not, has become blurred. Otherwise perfectly law abiding citizens think nothing of saving a 'few bob' by buying smuggled booze, or tobacco, for example. We condone the fencing of stolen goods & the proliferation of pirate & counterfeit goods, by buying them at 'boot sales'. The definition of the words lying & stealing, appears to have changed....

Then the 'planet of grab' society we live in, appears to offer an insecure future where hard work & polite behaviour are rewarded by mediocrity, while the brash & rude, curse & cheat their way to the top.

Where icons of everything fashionable & desireable are shoved in your face 24 hours a day. Where having the right labels, the latest gadget, the right 'look' is considered more important than anything - especially more important than courtesy, or consideration for others, lets push people out of the way to get what we want...

I'm amazed how any young people manage to survive all that & get anywhere near 'decent & honest', myself.

You do have some valid points there, teenagers need all the latest designer trainers and clothes to keep up with their mates. I guess shoplifting amongst teenagers for clothes could be in poor or single parent families.

My parents were very skint when I was young because they were both under 17 when I was born, (probably a bigger thing back in 1966 than today) I never seemed to get as much spent on me at christmas as many of the other kids, I never really had any pocket money either. However one thing I can honestly say, is I never stole to make up for it. If I had of the punishment would of been far more severe than the majority of kids would get these days.

[TigaSefi]

According to Sky News, Human rights group find this "idea" is degrading to the criminals.

Originally Posted by Escapee

You do have some valid points there, teenagers need all the latest designer trainers and clothes to keep up with their mates. I guess shoplifting amongst teenagers for clothes could be in poor or single parent families.

My parents were very skint when I was young because they were both under 17 when I was born, (probably a bigger thing back in 1966 than today) I never seemed to get as much spent on me at christmas as many of the other kids, I never really had any pocket money either. However one thing I can honestly say, is I never stole to make up for it. If I had of the punishment would of been far more severe than the majority of kids would get these days.

There was time when a status symbol was just that, it showed you had achieved something - nowadays just having the object is considered an achievement. How you aquired it, or whether it is even genuine (what is the point in a fake Rolex fgs ), doesn't seem to matter, anymore.

My son was caught stealing from us, to fund a need to 'keep up' with his peers, in his case over whose collection of Games Workshop figures, was the best. We made him sell it all to pay us back - but the best punishment was making him realise how hurt we were at the betrayal of trust and how we may be able to forgive him, but would never be able to trust him the same, ever again.

[Chimaera]

Originally Posted by TigaSefi

According to Sky News, Human rights group find this "idea" is degrading to the criminals.

Of course they do - wait until they (or their family members) get burgled/mugged/happy slapped or whatever and I'm sure their opinions would differ slightly!