UK's Biggest?

[Shaun]

Originally Posted by BBKing

Go away and find out the relative % of the area of the UK served by BT exchanges and ntl cable. Then ask yourself why BT might have a few more connections...

Shouldn't matter, if they ran the current promotions and had a service thats wasn't renowned for constantly being broken then they should IMHO have captured 80% of people in their catchment area. After all the 3 for £30 deal is a GREAT deal but they are just too well known for supplying dodgy products that break constantly. Here in Leicester things have been so bad in the last few years that people actively walk up to the Ntl stand in the ~Shires and have a go at the sales guys, I've seen them do it.

I'm not knocking Ntl for the sake of it, I'm just pointing out that the story isn't what it seems to be.

[Derek]

5 Mil wholesale connections. Split up between the other ISP's it still puts Ntl at the upper end of the Spectrum.

Originally Posted by Shaun

As a network Ntl are miles behind, they shouldn't be after all they have all the best technology on their side (allegedly!!).

Miles behind? Where does that come from.

[Shaun]

Originally Posted by dezzo

5 Mil wholesale connections. Split up between the other ISP's it still puts Ntl at the upper end of the Spectrum.

I was talking about connections as a network not as an ISP

[Derek]

Originally Posted by Shaun

I was talking about connections as a network not as an ISP

So the only provider to cover the whole of the UK has more connections than others that only cover sections of the country... Someone page Rupert, we've got a big story here!

[Shaun]

Originally Posted by dezzo

So the only provider to cover the whole of the UK has more connections than others that only cover sections of the country... Someone page Rupert, we've got a big story here!

Thats not what I said and you know it my points were:

That Ntl's penetration into the market (for all services) is not what it should be with the deals they are offering.

Also that Ntl are getting a reputation for having a creaking network that for many doesn't work more often than it does.

Oh and that BT rubbished Ntls claims, but I guess you read that in the article.

[jonifen]

Originally Posted by dezzo

It does mean that you are doing something right though seeing 9/10 of the customers could go elsewhere if they felt it was necessary.

Possibly... although most people tend to stay put as its easier to moan than vote with your feet.
I however find it easier to moan (sometimes), although we are looking at moving house and I dont wish to sign up to a Sky/ADSL 12mth contract combo only to end up moving before then

Although if we ended up in a TW area, I'd definitely get their broadband... but still get Sky

Shaun has a point definitely - for what NTL are doing to gain customers, they dont appear to be gaining an amount to justify how much time/money they're putting into the campaigns.

[th'engineer]

Originally Posted by jonifen

they dont appear to be gaining an amount to justify how much time/money they're putting into the campaigns.

I agree with that was in the arndale centre in middleton manchester having a cuppa. Cafe on balcony over main mall and there was two of the sales team talking to each other. not a sale made in twenty minutes one seemed to be permanantly attached to mobo phone.

Noticed baguley id so must be NTL Staff.

Anyway was doing lots of shopping walked past did not even ask people if the wanted cable.

A bit further up was a Sky Sales pitch he had a queue signing people up

Two NTL people and did less than one sky sales person.

But not surprised both perminantley on mobos .

Looked like they must be paid by false pretencies, if it was me would have them on a bonus scheme no sales no pay.

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by th'engineer

Remember the NTL circle

Gain customers, lose customers to poor service, worry what shall we do , offer discounts, Gain Customers, lose customers to poor service, worry what shall we do, offer discounts etc

It all goes round less investment in people to keep network going ( Job cuts recently)

Less investment in equipment to support new subcribers (to give shareholders more divi)

I have to agree, ntl have always operated by channelling all the emphasis in one direction, and then having a complete change of emphasis when it all goes wrong.

From day one ie: when they were called CableTel, the emphasis was on keeping customer churn below X percent. This carried on into ntl days, and to meet these targets they would give good offers and even free service to those who threatened to leave or had any complaints about lack of service/functions, when the shareholders started to see through the statistics and realise the high percentage of customers that were not fully paying for the service they were receiving, the emphasis turned onto getting rid of these people because they were in effect bad debt. This made customer numbers decrease, so they then built up a customer retention department..................... Its all swings and roundabouts, a good report in one area is often hiding bad news in another area. They even tried to make the figures look good by keeping tens of thousands of customers from old closed networks on the books, and keeping bad debtors/closed accounts to make figures look good, and for that reason many people with closed accounts ended up getting letters from debt collection agencies.

[Peter_Stanley]

Originally Posted by dezzo

It does mean that you are doing something right though seeing 9/10 of the customers could go elsewhere if they felt it was necessary.

But moving has a cost attached (£60 ADSL installation & £70 new ADSL modem/wireless router in my case) so you have to be pretty fed up to leave.

[Charlie_Bubble]

Originally Posted by Peter_Stanley

But moving has a cost attached (£60 ADSL installation & £70 new ADSL modem/wireless router in my case) so you have to be pretty fed up to leave.

Not necessarily. Most ADSL ISPs provide you with a free modem and a lot of them waive the connection fee through extended offers, as does NTL a lot of the time when they have offers on.

[Peter_Stanley]

Originally Posted by Charlie_Bubble

Not necessarily. Most ADSL ISPs provide you with a free modem and a lot of them waive the connection fee through extended offers, as does NTL a lot of the time when they have offers on.

Okay, most will waive the connection fee if you are prepared to sign for a 12 month contract (or even better, stipulate that if you cancel within 12 months the fee becomes payable). And yes, most provide a usb modem but not a wireless modem/router or ethernet modem compatible with an existing wireless router afaik...

[Chrysalis]

It all boils down to conveniance I have already mentioned it before.

NTL as an isp are poor, (transperent proxies, performance all over the place can be real poor in some areas, no product for power users)
NTL as a tv supplier are poor, (again can be great in some areas but other areas are getting a analogue only service reducing in quality each year)
NTL as a phone supplier are average.

Given that you only needed 1 of these 3 things, I think most people would not choose NTL, the reason why NTL are so popular is they supply all these products under 1 name making it easier for people, their is also the problem that some people cannot have BT/SKY due to landlord restrictions, and there only been 1 reseller of NTL broadband (AOL).

[Charlie_Bubble]

Originally Posted by Peter_Stanley

Okay, most will waive the connection fee if you are prepared to sign for a 12 month contract (or even better, stipulate that if you cancel within 12 months the fee becomes payable). And yes, most provide a usb modem but not a wireless modem/router or ethernet modem compatible with an existing wireless router afaik...

So NTL doesn't have any tie-ins, or fixed term contracts and supply a wireless cable modem/router?

[Peter_Stanley]

Originally Posted by Charlie_Bubble

So NTL doesn't have any tie-ins, or fixed term contracts and supply a wireless cable modem/router?

Of course NTL have tie-ins and don't supply free routers. The point was that having been with NTL for a while, there can be an upfront cost to moving away. Enough said.

[Charlie_Bubble]

Originally Posted by Peter_Stanley

Of course NTL have tie-ins and don't supply free routers. The point was that having been with NTL for a while, there can be an upfront cost to moving away. Enough said.

But, your argument is full of holes. There is no major up-front cost of moving. You say that you can't move away as you have to pay a set-up fee. Many don't enforce this. You say you have to buy hardware, which many give free. The only thing that stops people leaving is not wanting to change, or laziness. They can't be bothered. This is why so many people get bad service and pay over the odds for poor quality in all aspects, banks, credit cards mortgages. If you're not happy with the service/cost, move, simple as that.

I moved away from NTL a year ago and haven't looked back. I wasn't happy with the way they were moving (Caps, crappy email and a laughable news server service), so I got ADSL. In the last month my monthly bill for my 2Meg line has gone down £10 and if I wanted, I could move to UKOnline and get 8Meg in the enxt couple of months, but I'm not sure I will as I'm happy where I am.