Interesting story about credit card fraud

Originally Posted by Xaccers

How's sending credit card checques through the post any less risky than sending an entire book of bank account cheques? Especially without your signature

OK. a customer who requests or expects a cheque book to be sent there is no problem, the item has been requested and sent - received and therefore result - customer very happy.

Barclaycard send blank cheques with advertising material unsolicited by the customer, customer has no idea that these are sent or when they are to be sent and neither would customer know if they have been sent or lost.

I hope this makes the point a little clearer.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Gogogo

OK. a customer who requests or expects a cheque book to be sent there is no problem, the item has been requested and sent - received and therefore result - customer very happy.

Barclaycard send blank cheques with advertising material unsolicited by the customer, customer has no idea that these are sent or when they are to be sent and neither would customer know if they have been sent or lost.

I hope this makes the point a little clearer.

Can they be used without your signature though?

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Can they be used without your signature though?

Ah, but if they have your details then Christmas comes early courtesy, say, of Amazon. "Cardholder not present" transactions as the jargon has it.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by andyl

Ah, but if they have your details then Christmas comes early courtesy, say, of Amazon. "Cardholder not present" transactions as the jargon has it.

But then, they have the address linked to the criminal, ok may not be their address, but it's somewhere they are linked to in order to have picked up the package.
As it's credit card fraud, and in this case, internet credit card fraud, the card companies are quite good at clearing it up in order to encourage further legitimate credit card usage.
It's in the card company's interest to get people to shop on the internet as you can really only do it by using your credit card, thus making the card company lots of extra cash.
If they start thumbing their nose at victims of internet credit card fraud, then a lot of people will no longer shop online, choosing instead to go local using debit cards, so visa and mastercard etc lose out.

Originally Posted by Xaccers

But then, they have the address linked to the criminal, ok may not be their address, but it's somewhere they are linked to in order to have picked up the package.

And that probably turns out to be either an accommodation address or a flat that someone's rented for a month for the sole purpose of fraud and they've vanished without trace.

As it's credit card fraud, and in this case, internet credit card fraud, the card companies are quite good at clearing it up in order to encourage further legitimate credit card usage.

Sorry, but with Chip and sPin they may *say* that, but in reality it's just a way of getting some poor sod to get stuck with the bill.

If they start thumbing their nose at victims of internet credit card fraud, then a lot of people will no longer shop online, choosing instead to go local using debit cards, so visa and mastercard etc lose out.

The point is that, over the internet, it's the retailer that's likely to end up taking the loss, not the customer or the card company.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Graham

The point is that, over the internet, it's the retailer that's likely to end up taking the loss, not the customer or the card company.

Have the conditions changed then? It used to be that credit card use meant guarenteed payment for the store, which is unfortunatly why in so many countries they don't bother looking at the signature.

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Have the conditions changed then? It used to be that credit card use meant guarenteed payment for the store

Eh?? Taking a credit cards has not guaranteed payment since I've been taking them!

The T&C say that even getting an authorisation number etc only confirms that *as of that time* the card has not been reported lost or stolen, but that's it, after that, it's the retailers loss and tough luck!

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Graham

Eh?? Taking a credit cards has not guaranteed payment since I've been taking them!

The T&C say that even getting an authorisation number etc only confirms that *as of that time* the card has not been reported lost or stolen, but that's it, after that, it's the retailers loss and tough luck!

So if someone nicks my card, buys something from you, you get paid by the card company, then I report it as a fraudulent transaction, the card company takes the money off you?

Originally Posted by Xaccers

if someone nicks my card, buys something from you, you get paid by the card company, then I report it as a fraudulent transaction, the card company takes the money off you?

Yes, it's called a Charge Back.

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Have the conditions changed then? It used to be that credit card use meant guarenteed payment for the store, which is unfortunatly why in so many countries they don't bother looking at the signature.

The issue for retailers is that if the number of fraudulent transactions increase so do the merchant fees charged by the banks to that retailer or trading sector. It costs retailers, and in some cases dearly. The travel industry is one in particular that's suffered from rising merchant fees.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Graham

Yes, it's called a Charge Back.

So they send you a bill requesting the money back?

[punky]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

So they send you a bill requesting the money back?

Nope, with a ChargeBack, they just rip the money out of your back account, or out of escrow.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by punky

Nope, with a ChargeBack, they just rip the money out of your back account, or out of escrow.

Ah, I gues the thinking behind that is it is up to the retailer to ensure that the signature matches etc

Must be other countries then that I'm thinking of where it guarentees payment.

[bmxbandit]

very, very few people even bother to look at stuff i sign

check this out...almost unbelievable the lengths he had to go to!

[punky]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Ah, I gues the thinking behind that is it is up to the retailer to ensure that the signature matches etc

Must be other countries then that I'm thinking of where it guarentees payment.

Well, like Graham said when you get the Authorisation Number, the money is taken from the card, and the amount stored in quarantine, usually until the end of the day, but could be longer. Then your account is credited with everything in the quarantined account.

The CC companies have the sole descretion to do what they like, even months after a transaction. They can whisk the money straight out of your account, and will, and there isn't a thing you can do about it. They don't even notify you in some cases. It just gets debited out. There is a chargeback appeals process though. Mostly if people just charge back on their CC for something you have given them, you need to go down other non-payment.

An authorisation number will gaurantee that the money will go into your account, i.e. that it is cleared funds, but it doesn't mean it will stay in there.