*ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.

Originally Posted by Tristan

mojo, have you ever considered thinking before posting? Maybe combined with a bit of reading around the subject?

Have you? I'll ignore the factual errors for now, since Ignition has kindly done the job of pointed them out for me.

You clearly didn't understand the thrust of my post, so I'll spell it out for you. The UK has very slow broadband compared to other similar countries. Part of the problem is BT not offering anything faster than 1MB in most areas. The other part is that cable companies, NTL included, are not pushing forward as much as they could.

I suppose it's hard to blame them in a way, since there is so little competition, but by introducing a cap (don't forget, they were the first broadband ISP to formally have a cap) they started a dangerious precident. It's often a problem with UK companies in general - they try and save money by having a sub-standard product and then wonder why things just get worse.

[MysticKiller]

Originally Posted by Tristan

[rant]

(By the way, if we're going for useless examples, I have several friends living in UK who can plug their home computers straight into a 100Mbps internet connection -- and pay less than £100 a year for the privalege. Also, I notice you don't mention the many cable ISPs in the states where configurations like 8 meg down/128k up are not uncommon -- for exactly the same reasons as above.)

[/rant]

How's this possible plz? I wont mind abit of hassle for 100mb and for such a cheap price

[daxx]

Originally Posted by mojo

<snipped>
I suppose it's hard to blame them in a way, since there is so little competition, but by introducing a cap (don't forget, they were the first broadband ISP to formally have a cap) they started a dangerious precident. <snip>

Factual Error

Incorrect.

BT were the first in the UK, and the wording for NTL's 'soft guideline' currently in use and the nearest thing we NTL ers have to a CAP (at this moment in time) was lifted verbatim from the BT website.

[DieDieMyDarling]

I find it difficult to understand why Telewest can have a 4mb (upgrades completed early) UNCAPPED, yet ntl can't even have 3mb uncapped. Is the ntl infrastructure really just that bad compared to Telewest?
Does Telewest have the same problems with emails, news servers and complete loss of service as ntl do?

Also, would be interesting if any Telewest customers could let us know what the 4mb service is like, are you experiencing all the slowdowns that people claim would happen on an uncapped service? Are people suffering on the same UBR's, due to overuse?

[ian@huth]

Originally Posted by DieDieMyDarling

I find it difficult to understand why Telewest can have a 4mb (upgrades completed early) UNCAPPED, yet ntl can't even have 3mb uncapped. Is the ntl infrastructure really just that bad compared to Telewest?
Does Telewest have the same problems with emails, news servers and complete loss of service as ntl do?

Also, would be interesting if any Telewest customers could let us know what the 4mb service is like, are you experiencing all the slowdowns that people claim would happen on an uncapped service? Are people suffering on the same UBR's, due to overuse?

Increasing speeds and staying with an uncapped service may only be problematic if users significantly alter the usage of their connection. One result that may be experienced is that users may not always get the maximum speed that their connection is rated at, but that is the result of contention which comes more into play the nearer the speed is to the overall capacity . What is better though, a 3Mb connection that at times only runs at 2 Mb or a 1.5 Mb connection?

Originally Posted by MysticKiller

How's this possible plz? I wont mind abit of hassle for 100mb and for such a cheap price

Well, Tokyo is quite densely populated, so in some areas the telcos have laid in fibre optic cable to each block. Of course, you will probably never download at 100Mbit, that's just the theoretical maximum of the line.

If you live close to an exchange, you can get 50Mbit ADSL. More common is 12Mbit. This was in April though, when I was over there. Just about every street in Akihabara had a stall selling fast broadband. Loads of competition and low prices.

My suggestion to NTL would be this. Offer unlimited bandwidth overnight, when most people are in bed. That way, people won't have problems surfing during the day and at night people can download freely. Or, do like Bulldog do and have 1MBit during the day and 3MBit off-peak.

In the end, I don't think capping will help NTL out that much. Unlike an ADSL ISP, when someone leaves NTL they don't just loose £25/month, they loose out on TV and phone subscriptions as well. Sky has better but slightly more expensive TV, BT is about the same for phone lines and so really the only advantage NTL has is bandwidth.

[DieDieMyDarling]

Originally Posted by ianathuth

Increasing speeds and staying with an uncapped service may only be problematic if users significantly alter the usage of their connection. One result that may be experienced is that users may not always get the maximum speed that their connection is rated at, but that is the result of contention which comes more into play the nearer the speed is to the overall capacity . What is better though, a 3Mb connection that at times only runs at 2 Mb or a 1.5 Mb connection?

To be honest, i'm very happy with the 1.5mb connection, but my point is, i bet that when ntl go capped (hard cap) and release the 3mb service etc, the same problems that have always existed, will STILL exist, the cap in my opinion is just an excuse to cover up the fact that they can't handle what they have, due to mis-management, low funding in area's that need it, and not actually caring about the customer (as proven by their choice to do some (for now) of their tech support in India!

A lot of the people i know on ntl are thinking of moving to ADSL, most don't even know much about caps, they're just fed up with all the other problems on the ntl networks.

[Earwig]

Getting back to the original point of all this, you said that your I.S.P has told you that you can not get 1MB??

I think you may be suprised if you go back and ask them about it. I was told that I could not get 1MB on my phoneline but now I can.

If you head over to adslguide you will alos find that BT has been forced to let other companies use it's phonelines which will boost ADSL hugely in the coming year.

Within just a few weeks of other companies useing BT's lines there is a company out there offering an 8MB line for a mere £39.99 with a 4GB pre DAY cap on it...

This is also only the start as they plan to spread this to other parts of the country and Bulldog who are curently offering a 6MB are going to follow them.

You can bet your ass that many other I.S.P's will follow there lead. When this happens NTL may well find themselves in a spot of bother as people move for these services offering vastly faster connections and a much higher cap.

My advice to you would be to maybe wait a while to see what developes in the new year.

I am currently on the 1.5MB with NTL and will stay with them when they go to 3MB but as soon as they start to enforce a cap on me I will move onto another I.S.P that can offer me what I want. In my mind I would much rather have a 1MB or 2MB and download as much as I want than a 3MB with a low cap on it.

[Shaun]

Is it Cable or Adsl that has increased speed this year and will be doing it again next year

Both, although I can't wait for Bulldog to start 8mbit here in Leicester! Don't think Ntl will before 2006!

Originally Posted by mojo

Or, do like Bulldog do and have 1MBit during the day and 3MBit off-peak.

Thats news to me as a long time 'dog customer

[Ignition]

Earwig that's tripe, other companies have been using BT's lines 'unbundled' for years, the UKOnline deal is from Easynet who had unbundled BT's exchanges for years before they began to offer residential services under the UKOnline name over their unbundled network.

The change in 1Mbit availability you are alluding to probably came from BT's relaxing of the limits done a few months ago.

Last I checked Bulldog currently max at 4Mbit 'Bulldog 4' apart from business deals, although I can't see any mention of >4Mbit for businesses at the moment either... http://www.bulldogbroadband.com/residential/ http://www.bulldogbroadband.com/business/

Looks like when Cable and Wireless spread the love outside of London that 8Mbit will have to be awaited for a bit longer dellwear, at the moment BD have taken a step back in speeds, they used to offer 6Mbit but looks as though they don't anymore.

Of course the other minor detail is that you have to be VERY close to your exchange to receive the full 8Mbit service, I can receive it (if my exchange were ever unbundled) and I'm less than 800m (cable distance) away.

Bulldog's capping took a different approach though, they just let their network overload to hell so that 20:1 business line users such as myself ended up with ISDN speeds.

Or, do like Bulldog do and have 1MBit during the day and 3MBit off-peak.

Bulldog haven't done any Primetime services for a number of months now - they did however do this for 1 and 2Mbit Datastream users previously, there was a 'Primetime' service which was 512k during 'peak' times, 8am-6pm Mon-Fri, and either 1Mbit or 2Mbit outside of those times, and the Alltime service which was 1 or 2Mbit all the time.

Anyway a tad off topic here, apologies but rebutting.

[Mauldor]

4Mbit download and 512k upload for 52 + vat - where do i sign up?? Lol pity that only is the case if you happen to be in a major town that is wired for Bulldog otherwise you can only choose max 2mbit / 256, god dang.

What is the max Length of a CAT 5 cable by the way? Ignition - why not wire yourself stright in to the exchange Might involve some digging of roads but im sure people wont mind...

[Earwig]

Originally Posted by Ignition

Earwig that's tripe, other companies have been using BT's lines 'unbundled' for years, the UKOnline deal is from Easynet who had unbundled BT's exchanges for years before they began to offer residential services under the UKOnline name over their unbundled network.

I was just going by the news that is posted on ADSLguide which comes direct from the BBC news. From what I read then it has only just been allowed to happen on a large scale and at VASTLY lower prices to those unbundling them. Maybe due to the extortionate prices they were charging prevented it from happening before?? The articles can be found here. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4100589.stm

And here... http://www.vnunet.com/news/1160168

Maybe I have read them and misunderstood them??

Anyways I do not claim to be right and you know far more about this than I may ever do, but if this is true then surely NTL must worry about it?? Surely they have to change their future plans or be left behind??


Still off topic.........Sorry ! !

[Ignition]

Is ok, but UKOnline are using exchanges that were unbundled by Easynet to supply business customers already, not for residential customers.

I imagine NTL won't worry too much unless this starts to impact on the bottom line, this being the main concern for the company.

[zaax]

Originally Posted by Ignition

I imagine NTL won't worry too much unless this starts to impact on the bottom line, this being the main concern for the company.

Look at M&S to little to late.

[enjoymarcus]

LOL, whats next? Capping us on how much TV we are allowed to watch in a day?

I download about 10 gigs a day, and this will go upto 20 gigs when my connection is doubled, i have never had a letter or email...