Turin Shroud - genuine?

[Xaccers]

Its interesting as islam suggests that the claim of being the son of god was actually made up by the jewish elders to justify having him killed.
In the resulting confusion of telling the story by word of mouth, the lie has been turned into truth as it makes jesus seem more important than just the messiah (chosen one).
Hence why islam acknowledges Jesus as the messiah but not the son of god.

[Russ]

Well, I suppose that's one way to look at it....

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Russ D

Well, I suppose that's one way to look at it....

Not saying it's right or wrong, just what they believe.
Kinda feels plausible to me.
You'll be able to answer this Russ, or Towney, when in Jesus' life does he first mention he is the son of god?
Was claiming to be a prophet or messiah enough to be killed? Did they add that charge to get the deed done?

[peachey]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Its interesting as islam suggests that the claim of being the son of god was actually made up by the jewish elders to justify having him killed.
In the resulting confusion of telling the story by word of mouth, the lie has been turned into truth as it makes jesus seem more important than just the messiah (chosen one).
Hence why islam acknowledges Jesus as the messiah but not the son of god.

might be the wrong place to point it out

but why, if those islamic fanatic crowds, are so against making images and pictures of people are they always demonstrating holding up pictures of some bloke and chanting

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Not saying it's right or wrong, just what they believe.
Kinda feels plausible to me.

As does evolution?

Originally Posted by Xaccers

You'll be able to answer this Russ, or Towney, when in Jesus' life does he first mention he is the son of god?
Was claiming to be a prophet or messiah enough to be killed? Did they add that charge to get the deed done?

Not sure when He first said it (don't have my bible with me at the mo) but under Jewish law it was illegal to make such claims. The only people who could 'decide' if someone was the Son of God were the high priests and elders. When Jesus came He pointed out flaws in the way they were living their lives so they felt threatened by Him, particulary as so many people were believing and following Him. Each time they tried to catch Him out, He give them an answer they couldn't respond to.

The council felt this would lead to arnachy (plus they had a sneaky feeling that He would not be argued with simply because He had a valid response to everything they threw at Him) and simply did not believe His claims of divinity and proclaimed Him a 'blasphemer'. Feeling threatened, they declared a death penalty, even though it was against the law of the land at the time.

I was studying archaeology 10 years ago - and back then, researchers were moving their funds away from C-14 dating and towards other, indirect methods (such as dendrochronology, which dates artefacts using tree-rings), precisely because radiocarbon was becoming increasingly seen as insufficiently accurate. It can give you a ball-park date for an artefact, providing that artefact is not supposed to be more than about 70,000 years old, but with accuracy routinely worse than +/- 250 years (often much worse) it's useless at dating something so precisely fixed in time as the Turin Shroud.

I think the context of the Turin Shroud is far more telling as a clue to its likely accuracy (or otherwise). It belongs to a church movement which collectively owns more vials of milk from the breast of the virgin than could possibly be considered decent (I mean, what was she doing expressing her milk in the first place? Somehow I can't see Joseph getting up to do the 2am feed)

Relics, and their control, was key to the authority of the medieval Roman Catholic church. Seen in that light, the Turin shroud is just too convenient for me.

EDIT: Also seems strange to me that the face on the shroud looks like a 'western' man painted in the medieval stylee, rather than an anatomically accurate semitic man. Compare:

Turin Shroud:



Effigy of Henry III: (13th century)