[Update] The UK votes to leave the EU

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Damien

Well he responding to the suggestion Remain voters haven't thought about it. His point being stop generalising the other side negatively.

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Anyway I am now 70% sure Leave is going to win. I think the polls and pundits are underestiming the vote from working class Labour voters, especially in the north. The underlying polling is also bad for Remain, many think there will be no economic hit from Brexit.

I'm actually 70% sure that we'll remain.

That said, the odds on Brexit are shortening.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

I never said there was no plan I said them not pretending to have a plan on negotiations makes me feel they are more credible rather then them coming out with some announced plan that can have no basis in fact. Two years is the maximum at the moment but if the uk votes out a few things will be changing in the EU they won't have a choice and if the leave vote is not significantly high the EU may decide it can drag things out in the hope of a way to reverse the referendum.

Reality is no one has a clue it's all utter guesswork as nothing like this has happened before anyone talking in absolute terms at the minute highlights themselves as a liar.

Newsflash Rizzy they are liars, everyone involved in this from the start is nothing more than an absolute liar and
the two years only start once we give the EU notice of our intention to quit, that process can be dragged out a few months at least, then the click starts ticking on the two year process.

---------- Post added 11-06-2016 at 00:00 ---------- Previous post was 10-06-2016 at 23:57 ----------

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

I'm actually 70% sure that we'll remain.

That said, the odds on Brexit are shortening.

Everyone I know from all walks of life and income from various parts of the country are all voting leave, I'm the only one who is in any doubt

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Everyone I know from all walks of life and income from various parts of the country are all voting leave, I'm the only one who is in any doubt

Most people I know are voting remain, I'm an anomaly. Swings, roundabouts.

[Horizon]

Everyone that I know in my part of London are firmly in the Brexit camp, but London as a whole ismainly pro-EU.

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Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Everyone I know from all walks of life and income from various parts of the country are all voting leave, I'm the only one who is in any doubt

Say what you're doubts are and perhaps someone can alleviate them for you.

I think most of us on here are so biased towards our own views that we are not the best people to help swing an undecided person and they would be far better off researching the areas of concern for themselves and making a personal decision. I'm having to be very careful when discussing this with my daughter as I want her to make her own choice for her own reasons but she hasn't been very interested in politics until now and I worry my bias is coming out in how I describe certain aspects to her and wish I was better able to remove my personal views from my explanations. It's a lot harder to do then I thought it would be and as I'd managed to do it in terms of religion I was perhaps a little overconfident in thinking I could do it as easily with this issue.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Horizon

Everyone that I know in my part of London are firmly in the Brexit camp, but London as a whole ismainly pro-EU.

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Say what you're doubts are and perhaps someone can alleviate them for you.

That's unlikely, I've literally flip flopped on this for years, ten years ago I was one of the few on here arguing against the EU, then for a while I was very pro eu and now the times coming to decide I've characteristically changed my mind and side several times, at the moment I'm probably in the remain camp. I wouldn't be shocked if I didn't remain here though.

[Big Brian]

Originally Posted by Gavin78

Gove was talking about still doing trade with the EU perhaps not as a single market but it seems the EU is saying no trade at all or that is the way I read the article

That would not be in their best interests.

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Originally Posted by Hugh

You misread it...

The first line of the article states

Now how do they know that? Has there been a discussion about what would happen and what the UK will and won't get, and has there been a vote in the EU that we don't know about?

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Originally Posted by Damien

Well a new poll has Leave 10% ahead so it's not going to be long before we find out if it was scaremongering or not. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7075131.html

(10% by the way is far than can be made up with status-quo effects)

Ah! Music to my ears. If this is the trend then Project fear is dead!

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Originally Posted by Osem

I'm not a great believer in polls so I'll be waiting for the official result before I believe anything. I won't be celebrating if we do leave, I'll be wondering why the EU couldn't see sense and reform itself into what it should have been. Part of me still thinks they might if the shock of us leaving focuses a few minds but I won't be putting money on that.

God I'll be in the pub celebration if we leave. I never wanted any part of it in the first place and voted against in 1975. It was never going to work for us and it never will.

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Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Most people I know are voting remain, I'm an anomaly. Swings, roundabouts.

I think you'll find it depends or what area you live in as to the answer you'll get from people and their standards of living.

Originally Posted by Big Brian

That would not be in their best interests.

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Now how do they know that? Has there been a discussion about what would happen and what the UK will and won't get, and has there been a vote in the EU that we don't know about?

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Ah! Music to my ears. If this is the trend then Project fear is dead!

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God I'll be in the pub celebration if we leave. I never wanted any part of it in the first place and voted against in 1975. It was never going to work for us and it never will.

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I think you'll find it depends or what area you live in as to the answer you'll get from people and their standards of living.

It's very simple - there is a Single Market Agreement, and if you don't sign up to it under agreed terms (which The Gover has said Leave shouldn't do), you don't have access to the Single Market...

[Big Brian]

Originally Posted by Hugh

It's very simple - there is a Single Market Agreement, and if you don't sign up to it under agreed terms (which The Gover has said Leave shouldn't do), you don't have access to the Single Market...

Fair enough. Do we really want it? It only seems to work one way. We export mort to them than they do to us. Can't remember the exact figure the EU export to us but it's not bank breaking is it? It can be more than made up by trading with countries we don't trade with now.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

I'm actually 70% sure that we'll remain.

That said, the odds on Brexit are shortening.

i'm 100% sure there will be cheating from Dodgy Dave and his desperateers .

Originally Posted by papa smurf

i'm 100% sure there will be cheating from Dodgy Dave and his desperateers .

What cheating would that be then

Originally Posted by Big Brian

Fair enough. Do we really want it? It only seems to work one way. We export mort to them than they do to us. Can't remember the exact figure the EU export to us but it's not bank breaking is it? It can be more than made up by trading with countries we don't trade with now.

Lots of industries work across borders. It's not just a case of import/export.

[papa smurf]

Arise Sir Remain-backer! Fury as Cameron accused of handing gongs to pro EU candidates

DAVID Cameron and George Osborne were accused tonight of abusing their power by rewarding pro-European Union backers with honours.

Brexit campaigners said the appearance of leading Remain figures on the Queen’s Birthday Honours List marked “a new low”.

Among those getting a CBE – “for services to the food industry and charity” – is Innocent Drinks cofounder Richard Reed, the deputy chairman of the Britain Stronger in Europe official Remain campaign.

John Armitage, founder of hedge fund Egerton Capital, who is believed to have donated cash to the In campaign, also gets a CBE.

Gisele Stuart, Vote Leave chairman and Labour MP, said: “David Cameron and George Osborne have used every single ounce of their power to try to bully and frighten the British people into backing their campaign to keep us in the EU. Abusing our honours system to reward campaign cronies and donors is a new low.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/politi...-scoop-honours

Arise the Knights of Remain! PM accused of 'borderline corruption' and tainting the Queen's Birthday Honours by dishing out gongs to at least 20 pro-EU bosses
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...EU-bosses.html

[Big Brian]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

i'm 100% sure there will be cheating from Dodgy Dave and his desperateers .

Now you know how we felt in the Scottish referendum. I seem to remember Dodgy Dave and Co. saying we won't interfere in the referendum it's up to the Scottish people then when it looked like Independence might win there were all up there like flies round excrement interfering and up to their dodgy tricks. The things remain are saying now are exactly what they were saying in the Scottish referendum. Remember too that some of these Politicians are now on the leave side saying exactly the opposite. I have to ask why was it bad for Scotland to leave the Union but not for the Union to leave the EU under the same circumstances. It didn't change my vote on the EU but it's worth thinking about if you are undecided.

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Originally Posted by Damien

Lots of industries work across borders. It's not just a case of import/export.

I understand. Some may relocate but others will come to the UK so in the end you won't lose anything in the end.

[Horizon]

Originally Posted by Big Brian

Now you know how we felt in the Scottish referendum. I seem to remember Dodgy Dave and Co. saying we won't interfere in the referendum it's up to the Scottish people then when it looked like Independence might win there were all up there like flies round excrement interfering and up to their dodgy tricks. The things remain are saying now are exactly what they were saying in the Scottish referendum. Remember too that some of these Politicians are now on the leave side saying exactly the opposite. I have to ask why was it bad for Scotland to leave the Union but not for the Union to leave the EU under the same circumstances. It didn't change my vote on the EU but it's worth thinking about if you are undecided.

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I understand. Some may relocate but others will come to the UK so in the end you won't lose anything in the end.

Not the same thing at all.

Scotland chose to form the UK with England and long before political union, the Crowns of the two countries were united. We have been a united country for 300+ years. To tear that up would be disastrous.

No one has chosen to join the United States of Europe, only to join a trading bloc. We're not a united country with Europe.