President Trump 2.0

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Like I said, Starmer should have allowed the USA to use our bases.

Why ? Its not our war or anything we needed to be part of.

How long before Trump pulls the USA out of NATO?

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Like I said, USA was bounced into the war by Israel, imo.

---------- Post added at 21:40 ---------- Previous post was at 21:40 ----------



It's about how Starmer should have worked.

I am confused by your position where you seem to accept it's a stupid war, accept that Trump isn't acting rationally here, but think we should have supported it and him because it's the USA?

I agree that when the US requests our help, we owe it greater hearing than we do other nations because of the support we require from them, but that's not unconditional. If we think they've gone completely off the reservation, then we are not totally beholden to them. Just as if we went mad and decided it was time to invade some country, we shouldn't expect them to come and help us do so.

It's not in our interests to get too involved in military action in Iran. It's even so when you consider the Americans seem to have not only no plan, but no clear objective as to what success would be. Iraq was famously a disaster, but even that had much more planning for the initial stages than this war does. Even by American standards, this is an extremely stupid military endeavour.

You've succumbed to the same reflexive thought that our hyperactive political and media class succumbed to. That there is an American-led war, and therefore we should join without condition. It only takes a few minutes of thought to get past that impulse to ask why and how until you understand what a terrible idea it really is.

Originally Posted by Damien

I am confused by your position where you seem to accept it's a stupid war, accept that Trump isn't acting rationally here, but think we should have supported it and him because it's the USA?

I agree that when the US requests our help, we owe it greater hearing than we do other nations because of the support we require from them, but that's not unconditional. If we think they've gone completely off the reservation, then we are not totally beholden to them. Just as if we went mad and decided it was time to invade some country, we shouldn't expect them to come and help us do so.

It's not in our interests to get too involved in military action in Iran. It's even so when you consider the Americans seem to have not only no plan, but no clear objective as to what success would be. Iraq was famously a disaster, but even that had much more planning for the initial stages than this war does. Even by American standards, this is an extremely stupid military endeavour.

You've succumbed to the same reflexive thought that our hyperactive political and media class succumbed to. That there is an American-led war, and therefore we should join without condition. It only takes a few minutes of thought to get past that impulse to ask why and how until you understand what a terrible idea it really is.

Also (it seems) because Starmer didn’t do it, it’s bad that he didn’t do it - its not a pro-Trump position, it’s an anti-Starmer* stance…

*whatever stance Starmer takes, Seph is against it…

Well Andrew Neil is getting dunked on across social media for having two articles a week apart, the first proclaiming how he is to admit to his American friends that Starmer has gone mad for not supporting Trump, the second bemoaning Trump has no plan and shouldn't have done this.

These people (not anyone on here) are just terminally incapable of thinking about anything beyond the immediate hysteria and energy of the moment. Trump has gone to war! This is about history, the world stage, statecraft of the highest level, and in this moment, their greatest ally has abandoned them! Then, a week later, Trump is a lunatic who started a war with no plan.

Social media has cooked people's brains to the extent that they have no attention span. Everything is about the takes on x/Bluesky. I remember back when Trump blew up at Zelenskyy in the Oval Office, and you had liberals on Bluesky legitimately wondering if Starmer needed to resign because he hadn't put out a statement in the hours after it happened.

Everyone has gone mad about everything. Just take a breath, step back, and wait to think for a few moments before acting or commenting.

[Carth]

I'm convinced that the only sane people left in the World are those with a minimal social media presence . . of course I'm one of them