Brown on the ropes?

[Osem]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

Gordon brown may be the answer to something ..........

Insomnia?

---------- Post added at 22:08 ---------- Previous post was at 21:24 ----------

Just to add to the above, the Dow Jones index finished at around 9000 today having dropped as low as 8200 at one point!!

[Mick Fisher]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

Gordon brown may be the answer to something but this isn't it and by the time we find what he is an answer for i doubt we will care anymore.

Precisely!

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

If the tories have an answer or a policy towards whats going on then if i was them i would keep quiet as well or announce it and watch as gordon takes it rewords it a little and then announces it as a labour initiative. Tories can't win if they stay quiet they are accused of having no policies and if they do announce them they get poached by labour a purposeful position i think labour has created. Gordon brown may be the answer to something but this isn't it and by the time we find what he is an answer for i doubt we will care anymore.

It's one thing to pontificate on what you would have done, could do, and actually doing it. It's a world-wide problem, with the smartest economists disagreeing on what to do. I don't think anyone has a clear answer.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Damien

.... I don't think anyone has a clear answer.

All the more an indictment of those supposedly in charge who over the last few years either couldn't or didn't want to see this whole mess coming.

[etccarmageddon]

Damien, I remember when we the voters/members were being sold the idea of converting building societies to banks (this was about 20 years ago) - one of the big justifications was "they'll be able to raise money on the money markets in order to lend for mortgages etc which is something they are restricted as a building society"....

I assumed this meant that if they were offering a 3 year fixed rate mortgage then they'd raise say 100million on the money markets as a 3 year loan at a fixed rate and then lend that money to the bank customer at a slightly higher rate - what I didn't realise was that they'd offer the bank customer a fixed rate for 2, 3, 5 years but from money markets which often loaned money for 3 months at a time and during the fixed rate term the money markets money would be at a rate that went up and down.

If I have my facts wrong someone please correct me but the above is how I understand things played out.

So a lot of mortgages out there which run for years and years are depended not on money put in savings accounts at your bradford and bingley's of this world but short term money lend via the 'money markets'.

Money markets are a lot more fussy than your average saver who just wants to stuff his money in an account and forget about it.... when 'the markets' discovered that some prats in america were offering mortgages to people who had no chance of paying it back that's when things started to collapse.

The 'markets' about a year ago got cold feet and didn't want to offer cash to banks who'd clearly lent money irresponsibly.

Originally Posted by etccarmageddon

The 'markets' about a year ago got cold feet and didn't want to offer cash to banks who'd clearly lent money irresponsibly.

... and therefore the wheels have well and truly come off the mortgages and loans market in the UK because the process that underpins many of them has now completely stalled.

Yep, I'd say that was a pretty good assessment

[BBKing]

Labour tonight seemed to be on course for a surprise byelection victory in Glenrothes.

As the votes were being counted, sources from Labour and the Scottish National party said that early indications suggested that Labour would hold the seat with a majority of more than 3,000.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...s-byelections1

See? All Brown needed to do was throw the economy down the toilet and suddenly he starts winning elections. It's not the economy, stupid.

[Osem]

I reckon Brown must be rubbing his hands with glee. Having driven UK PLC head on into an unprecedented financial disaster, the very problems he's done so much to create now offer the opportunity for him to do what he does best - throw money at issues. It even allows him to backtrack on some of the hugely doddgy/unpopular tax related decisions he's made and stood by, dressing it all up as prudent measures in difficult times. I wouldn't be surprised if the retrospective VED changes are ditched sooner rather than later.

I am really starting to worry that people are forgetting what brownshirt has done to drop us so far in the mire and in typical goldfish mode are now applauding the man for the way he is handling it. If this continues we face the very real prospect of this man being reelected and i simply do not want to think about that.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

I am really starting to worry that people are forgetting what brownshirt has done to drop us so far in the mire and in typical goldfish mode are now applauding the man for the way he is handling it. If this continues we face the very real prospect of this man being reelected and i simply do not want to think about that.

Don't worry I won't let anyone around here forget..

If this crisis turns out to be Brown's 'Belgrano', I'll be sick as a parrot ...

[Osem]

I quite like the idea of Brown being on a sinking ship just as long as the only crew are his pathetic cohorts.

Originally Posted by Osem

I quite like the idea of Brown being on a sinking ship just as long as the only crew are his pathetic cohorts.

The thing about the Belgrano was, Thatcher was the one giving the orders to sink it, rather than being on board it. It, and the Falklands campaign in general, was sufficient as a popularity boost to mitigate against the otherwise shoddy state GB plc was in at the time.

Whether the state of the country today and in 1982/3 is comparable, and whether the actions and culpability of the Government then and now are comparable, are of course different matters entirely.

I'm just pointing out that a short-term perception of strong leadership can go a very long way to making the electorate forget about other issues.

[etccarmageddon]

frankly voters must be thick as pig poo if they believe G Brown is saving the day.


He isn't even a properly elected leader.


He built up a huge amount of national debt and invented the 'golden rule' that borrowing is for investment only.

but is now saying there is a new rule which says you can borrow in order to stimulate the economy.


I say there is a better rule - in the good years you pay off debt and build up reserves so when the bad years come you are able to stimulate the economy with tax cuts and investment. The good years and bad years make up what we'll call 'the economic cycle' but not "boom and bust" cos we have abolished that.

oh hang on that sounds like the 'golden rule'? Well, ok we'd do that golden rule but sadly we have bucket loads of borrowing so dont have any room to move so we'll make the economic cycle last for another 20 years and borrow loads and what the hell in order to bail out the motor industry we'll buy every taxpayer a car.

The most sensible course of action now would be for G. Brown to resign so someone else with less experience can smoothy steer the UK Titanic properly into the iceberg.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Chris

The thing about the Belgrano was, Thatcher was the one giving the orders to sink it, rather than being on board it. It, and the Falklands campaign in general, was sufficient as a popularity boost to mitigate against the otherwise shoddy state GB plc was in at the time.

Whether the state of the country today and in 1982/3 is comparable, and whether the actions and culpability of the Government then and now are comparable, are of course different matters entirely.

I'm just pointing out that a short-term perception of strong leadership can go a very long way to making the electorate forget about other issues.

Yes I know the point you were making and the Falklands conflict in general certainly did help Thatcher's standing. I was just putting another (rather more hopeful) slant on the analogy. I like to dream sometimes you know......