Relationships and religion

[Bifta]

Originally Posted by Graham

The point, however, is that anyone can, if they wish, learn Quantum Physics and, *independantly* prove and demonstrate the existance of black holes according to our existing knowledge of physics.

There is no "faith" or "belief" involved.

I'd love to see how they'd independently prove the existance of a black hole.

[Nemesis]

Originally Posted by Drudge

Your analogy is counter-productive to your argument.

Possibly

Originally Posted by Drudge

It suggests that your mother belived and passed on information from an INACCURATE source.

That she believed to be true, and was accurate from my point of view at the time. Does this mean she was wrong for standing up to what she believed in ?

Originally Posted by Drudge

As the source of your beliefs were written by men, in many cases long after the event. Translated by other men who also have been proven to have made many errors in the "word equivalence" used e.g the word "soul" was translated from quite a few diffent words in aramaic meaning "wind, ghost, life".

Accepted, however, the bible is only one source of this information. The fact that Jesus existed, and the reason the stories of his life death and rebirth were written, whether completely accurate, or have been embellished through time does not detract from the core existence.

Originally Posted by Drudge

Just as you accept that the bible is correct many, including myself, believe that your analogy above is correct - The source was mistaken

Possibly on many fronts, and also possibly not ... no one will really KNOW.

My main point is why do we need to question other peoples beliefs, can we not learn to live with each other, and accept that people are different and believe in different things.

EDIT:

This has been bugging me since you changed your sig ..

It's Hypocrisy isn't it not hypocracy ??

Originally Posted by Drudge

Your analogy is counter-productive to your argument.

It suggests that your mother belived and passed on information from an INACCURATE source.

As the source of your beliefs were written by men, in many cases long after the event. Translated by other men who also have been proven to have made many errors in the "word equivalence" used e.g the word "soul" was translated from quite a few diffent words in aramaic meaning "wind, ghost, life".

Just as you accept that the bible is correct many, including myself, believe that your analogy above is correct - The source was mistaken

I don't think Nemesis has ever said he shares the 'beliefs' written in the Bible, he is just offering a possible explanation of differing beliefs and suggesting a little more tolerance may be in order.

As for accuracy of translation, the English Bible is not a primary source - the original Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek writings are. You rightly point out that some translations into English are a little questionable, however the source of Christian doctrine does not come from any translation, whether English, Latin or otherwise; only copies of the original writings, still in their original languages.

And for the accuracy of the copies in the original languages, I respectfully direct you to the discoveries at Qumran (the 'Dead Sea Scrolls'), among which is a part-copy of Isaiah demonstratnig no significant copying errors have occured in more than 2,000 years.

[Nemesis]

Originally Posted by Drudge

This morning I have been reading about some of the many Norse gods. The existance of these is now accepted by a minutel number of people. If I accept your appeal not to question the beliefs of others should I also accept that THEY may be correct.

As a matter of fact, yes, I do believe that people have a right to believe whatever they want. I also believe that other people have the right to disagree with them and to debate these matters. What I cannot accept are the people who .................................. (silenced by order of ADMINS but read my sig.)

I've read your sig .... not sure of the spelling though ...

But your right to disagree with anyone's belief is not in question ..... but personal attacks on those that have a belief is uncalled for. What anyone believes in whether it be Roger Rabbit, God or that rain falls upwards should not require personal attacks or bullying to produce a decent debate.

[Nemesis]

Originally Posted by Drudge

Please see PM (Nemesis I mean, not ADMINS)

Have, thanks for the explanation, but can we refrain from goading and discuss Relationships and religion without Judgement.

PS ... can't find hypocracy anywhere ??

Originally Posted by Nemesis

Have, thanks for the explanation, but can we refrain from goading and discuss Relationships and religion without Judgement.

PS ... can't find hypocracy anywhere ??

'Hypocracy' is a common mis-spelling (Google it, it's everywhere) - but the correct spelling is hypocrisy, as explained here:

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=hypocrisy

[Nemesis]

Originally Posted by towny

'Hypocracy' is a common mis-spelling (Google it, it's everywhere) - but the correct spelling is hypocrisy, as explained here:

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=hypocrisy

That's what I thought .... but was willing to be proved a dunce .

Originally Posted by Drudge

I am not using this as any form of arguement but

this good church going woman was dying (soon) from cancer she had a (christian) boyfriend. They decided to get married. On the way to the church for the wedding there was an accident and she lost both her legs, which had to be removed at the roadside.

remember, she was reported on our local radio as a good church member not some evil sinner. How far can suffering by self-choice be taken?

The short answer to this is that the Bible says the reward for devotion to God is eternal life in heaven, not an easy ride on Earth. In fact, it specifically warns that we will have 'troubles' during our lifetime. Most of the original 12 apostles came to one kind of sticky end or another.

The long answer is an in-depth discussion of what 'liberal theologians' love to call the 'problem' of suffering, and as I am meant to be at work I'm not going to go into it right now...

Incidentally, your question also implies that God is minded to be vindictive towards those who have not yet chosen to follow him - this is not what the Bible says either.

[Tiptoes]

Originally Posted by Bifta

I'd love to see how they'd independently prove the existance of a black hole.

Mr two jabs two jags Prescotts stomach,

European Union unaccountable coffers..


I can give you plenty of evidence

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Drudge

remember, she was reported on our local radio as a good church member not some evil sinner. How far can suffering by self-choice be taken?

Her story reminds me of the preist on the rooftop during a flood. A boy in a cannoe offers help, a rescue boat offers help, a helicopter offers help, but each time he says "god will save me" so when he drowns he asks god why he didn't save him, and god says "I sent a cannoe, a boat and a helicopter, what more did you want?!"

All of this woman's family begger her not to go on the bike because of the bad weather and road conditions, they wanted her to take a taxi.
She chose to ignore them and unfortunately lost her legs.

Originally Posted by towny

Incidentally, your question also implies that God is minded to be vindictive towards those who have not yet chosen to follow him - this is not what the Bible says either.

*cough* egyptians *cough* river turning red *cough* plague of frogs *cough*

Originally Posted by towny

anyone can, if they wish, learn Quantum Physics and, *independantly* prove and demonstrate the existance of black holes according to our existing knowledge of physics.

There is no "faith" or "belief" involved.

But even *that* "belief" is open to question!

Did you watch the documentary series on String Theory recently?

Not so long ago the mass of the "scientific establishment" said that String Theory was nonsense. But now more and more people are accepting it may well be true.

Next year someone else may come up with a different theory and replace String Theory with something even more incredible.

But at *NO* point does anyone say "This is how it is, you must not question!"

Originally Posted by Bifta

I'd love to see how they'd independently prove the existance of a black hole.

I'd also love someone to prove it. Currently they're only a theory, but they're a pretty good theory as far as we understand it. Maybe next week we'll have a better theory. When do we get a "better theory" of religion?

(PS Eventually someone may make an FTL spaceship and go and visit the vicinity of one. And I'd love to find out there's a message next to it saying "Whoops, I divided by zero! - God")

Originally Posted by Graham

But even *that* "belief" is open to question!

Did you watch the documentary series on String Theory recently?

Not so long ago the mass of the "scientific establishment" said that String Theory was nonsense. But now more and more people are accepting it may well be true.

Next year someone else may come up with a different theory and replace String Theory with something even more incredible.

But at *NO* point does anyone say "This is how it is, you must not question!"

I would never demand that no-one question me. But to follow through with this analogy:

Originally Posted by Graham

PS Eventually someone may make an FTL spaceship and go and visit the vicinity of one.

Spiritually, my encounter with God is my faster-than-light trip to the vicinity of a black hole. That's why I sound so irritatingly sure of myself when I talk about Christian stuff.

Question me by all means, but remember that, personally, I'm not treating my faith as just another 'theory of everything'.

[Tiptoes]

Originally Posted by Russ D

On a personal level, do you think I respect the beliefs of followers of other faiths and atheists?

Sorry Russ I didnt answer this did I , well heregoes...

Truth is I dont know you so how can I think anything about you?

Ive never met you or trusted you in any capacity let alone say that I think what you do or dont respect...

But I do think that only those who are totally faithfull to their faith themselves from day one of their adult life can only respect their own faith and no other.

BTW No matter the religion you are I beleive you are truthfull and honest in what you are saying and feel and I respect that..

[Tiptoes]

Originally Posted by towny

I would never demand that no-one question me. But to follow through with this analogy:

Spiritually, my encounter with God is my faster-than-light trip to the vicinity of a black hole. That's why I sound so irritatingly sure of myself when I talk about Christian stuff. .

Firstly I didnt know Mr Prescott could eat his fish and chips that fast and secondly I respect you purveying your beliefs.