[Merged] NTL Increasing BB Speeds Late Summer 2004

Oh has this denigrated to the usual those for a cap because of the nasty people downloading more than their fair share versus those who think that if they are not downloading 24/7 they are being cheated with the online gamers carping from the sidelines because they have too many pingpongs.Why do we end up going down the same road over and over again?

Come on it's nice to have something positive from NTL for once.What ever their reasons for doing so,I for one,am not going to look a gift horse in the mouth.
Just as long as the 'coming soon' really does mean coming soon.As they are trying to keep up with Telewest in this I think there is a good chance that it does.

So lets us and try to a little less

Incog

[danielf]

Originally Posted by Vegeta

I think people on 600k BB should get a 50% speed boost so its 900k and not 750k...

I'm on 600k and I kind of agree, but as someone mentioned earlier, this would probably mean that loads of people who are on 1 meg now would simply downgrade (unless they need the higher upload). This would cost NTL a lot of revenue. Like it or not, I can understand why they don't boost the 600k service by 50%.

[erol]

Originally Posted by Bill C

Add new reasons all you want. It will not change my mind i know why i have 1 meg and dont mind being truthfull about it. I use it to download lots of stuff of the net there i gone and done it now

I did state that I accept that many people use their BB connections to download copyrighted material.

My (main) points were

1. This is not the ONLY high volume useage
2. Limiting usage is NOT a valid way to reduce such illegal acts (or a valid justifaction for limits)

Hope thats a bit clearer now?

(PS the RIAA are on their way to you right now)

[ian@huth]

Originally Posted by erol

I did state that I accept that many people use their BB connections to download copyrighted material.

My (main) points were

1. This is not the ONLY high volume useage
2. Limiting usage is NOT a valid way to reduce such illegal acts (or a valid justifaction for limits)

Hope thats a bit clearer now?

(PS the RIAA are on their way to you right now)

1. It may not be the ONLY high volume useage but I bet it accounts for most of the high volume useage.

2. Since when has any ISP introduced a cap to reduce illegal use of bandwidth?

Originally Posted by danielf

I'm on 600k and I kind of agree, but as someone mentioned earlier, this would probably mean that loads of people who are on 1 meg now would simply downgrade (unless they need the higher upload). This would cost NTL a lot of revenue. Like it or not, I can understand why they don't boost the 600k service by 50%.

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/sh...2&postcount=67

[erol]

Originally Posted by ianathuth

2. Since when has any ISP introduced a cap to reduce illegal use of bandwidth?

never (never say never so I'll change that to nerver ish) - but many users have tried to justify a cap in such terms and it was that I was 'contesting'

(ie the 'argument' than anyone affected by cap must be doing something illegal therefore cap is 'justified')

anyway this is all off topic so I'll shut up for now

[MovedGoalPosts]

Originally Posted by ianathuth

Since when has any ISP introduced a cap to reduce illegal use of bandwidth?

That was one of the strong, but unproven, rumours when the ntl cap was first started. The British Phongraphic Industry (the UKs equivalent of the RIAA) declined to comment to AntiCap, in reference to a BBC online news article that had implied just such a connection.

Originally Posted by Incognitas

Oh has this denigrated to the usual those for a cap because of the nasty people downloading more than their fair share versus those who think that if they are not downloading 24/7 they are being cheated with the online gamers carping from the sidelines because they have too many pingpongs.Why do we end up going down the same road over and over again?

Come on it's nice to have something positive from NTL for once.What ever their reasons for doing so,I for one,am not going to look a gift horse in the mouth.
Just as long as the 'coming soon' really does mean coming soon.As they are trying to keep up with Telewest in this I think there is a good chance that it does.

So lets us and try to a little less

Incog

As a staunch AntiCapper, I have to agree that in this instance, the cap is not the real issue, although in it's current ntl precsribed form, it does reduce the advantage of the speed increase. Ultimately the free speed increase is an interesting development for the broadband industry, one which the ADSL ISPs may have difficulty in following. The differences between cable and ADSL will now be quite marked in terms of speed, price and use limits, which will make customer choice less than straightforward. Time will tell whether the subscribers whether price or speed is the more important (where customers have a choice).

If ntl cannot implement, this in their "Summer" timescale, they could find themselves without any real advantage, as the ADSL industry will have time to develop it's answer.

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by erol

Oh please not this old chestnut again.

Yes many people infringe copyright with their BB conncetions but to state this is the _only_ reasons why a user might have large downlaod volumes is ridiculous.

I didn't state that this is the only reason

I want to use my BB connection to recieve or send videostreams from my own privately owned cameras (in porpery of mine in other locations, to my families house etc etx).

I want to use my BB connection to set up a VPN between my friends and family, where I can share their data and files and they mine as if we were on an office LAN.

mmmmm....happens a lot.....I see your point
GET REAL....those are of course valid uses but they do not solidly tie up a connnection 24/7.
...and in any event...the video streaming would probably be against the t&c's or be covered under business use...

You presumably are of the view that such legal applications and uses (along with 1000s of others) should be prohibited because some people steal movies and music?

Of course not I am just bemused that somepeople (read 'warezmonkeys') sometimes complain that cablecos are restricting them in the pursuit of their probably nefarious activities.

You do not limit crime that invovles the use of postal services by limiting how many letters people can send. You do not limit crimes that involve cars by limiting how much people can drive. So can we end this ridiculous idea that we should limit crimes that use the internet by limiting internet usage - once and for all? Please !

If you commit a crime by post then you still have to pay for the postage--if you commit more crimes by post then you have to pay more postage....similarily....If you want to download a lot more over the 'cap' then the the cabelcos are probably thinking about charging you more for it....fair enough, they have a business to run....and I want to keep my nice low ping as well. As for the car analogy---of course you would limit car crime by limiting the amount of time people spend in cars--they would be driving less...doh!

Originally Posted by ianathuth

1. It may not be the ONLY high volume useage but I bet it accounts for most of the high volume useage.

Thank you!

Originally Posted by Incognitas

Come on it's nice to have something positive from NTL for once.What ever their reasons for doing so,I for one,am not going to look a gift horse in the mouth.

Absabloodylutely!

[carlingman]

Originally Posted by Incognitas

Oh has this denigrated to the usual those for a cap because of the nasty people downloading more than their fair share versus those who think that if they are not downloading 24/7 they are being cheated with the online gamers carping from the sidelines because they have too many pingpongs.Why do we end up going down the same road over and over again?

Come on it's nice to have something positive from NTL for once.What ever their reasons for doing so,I for one,am not going to look a gift horse in the mouth.
Just as long as the 'coming soon' really does mean coming soon.As they are trying to keep up with Telewest in this I think there is a good chance that it does.

So lets us and try to a little less

Incog

Well personally I think it does nothing for either the gamers or the users.

NTL use another cheap ploy to make their none so clued up customers think they are giving them something for nothing.

Increasing speeds will do nothing more than flood an already saturated network.

Increasing speeds will do nothing to help the gamers as speed increase will have no bearing on pings.

As you mention the gamers carping on the sidelines and quite rightly they are too - they are forever ignored by NTL who refuse to acknowledge them and sweep their issues under the carpet.

Rather than address the issue the gamers have by a saturated network NTL choose to offer sweetners to the others hoping their feelings will outweigh the gamers complaints.

To me another **** poor attempt from NTL to rob Peter to pay Paul.

I am willing to put money on the fact after these speeds are increased NTL will be quick off the mark to start actually enforcing the Cap now that the speeds can reach it quicker.

And am also willing to put money on the fact that they will do nothing to assist the gamers and improve the network or mail servers or newsgroups.

I agree we should all unite and and try to a little less.

I doubt many gamers will agree with the above as by now they have all ditched NTL and found a decent ISP for pings and no longer need to carp.

[danielf]

Originally Posted by Pem

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/sh...2&postcount=67

I do hope you're not suggesting I should have gone back and dig that post out? It was/is a very valid point though. That's why I remembered

[MovedGoalPosts]

Originally Posted by danielf

I'm on 600k and I kind of agree, but as someone mentioned earlier, this would probably mean that loads of people who are on 1 meg now would simply downgrade (unless they need the higher upload). This would cost NTL a lot of revenue. Like it or not, I can understand why they don't boost the 600k service by 50%.

Just a thought (which might have been covered before, but this threads long enough to have forgotten the early posts ), How many users currently on 600k, will look at the new 300k teir and think, that might just be enough for me so saving a few quid. Whereas they wern't attracted to the 150k service which would have been too slow. So ntl find themselves making thier 150k customers really happy with more service for nothing, and also running the risk of seeing less revenue as some 600k customers see an achievable downgrade.

[MovedGoalPosts]

Originally Posted by carlingman

<snip>And am also willing to put money on the fact that they will do nothing to assist the gamers and improve the network or mail servers or newsgroups.<snip>

The ntl press release says that they are linking with Openwave and Highwinds (never heard of them myself but presumably they are big industry leaders in their fields) to enhance the email and newsgroups.

\Decides not to hold his breath for another "coming soon" implementation

[Nikko]

OK - so some 260+ contributions into the thread, with some diverse conjecture, speculation and numerous responses thereto, it remains that ntl are giving a free speed increase across the 3 BB platforms.

Given that if you continue to subscribe to 1MB at the (post June 1 increase) its still a free increase in speed. If you are on 600K or 150K, its unconditionally a free increase in speed.

In the same announcement, they have stated they are actively working on email and newsgroups, with a projected completion in May.

Whether or not they (ntl) choose to amend, pursue or ignore the cap, it is up to the individual to utilise their connection appropriately, and should they seek a combination of UL/DL ratio beyond the remit/perceived value of these new speeds, then its a free market.

I am on a 1MB connection. It is £3 a month more from 01/06/04. It remains to be seen if the projected newsgroups/email improvements occur by then - and how long we have to wait for the free speed increase.

I will be keeping an eye on it - but I am happy to sit back and give them the benefit of the doubt on this occasion.

Coming Soon - just maybe it is.

[danielf]

Originally Posted by MovedGoalPosts

Just a thought (which might have been covered before, but this threads long enough to have forgotten the early posts ), How many users currently on 600k, will look at the new 300k teir and think, that might just be enough for me so saving a few quid. Whereas they wern't attracted to the 150k service which would have been too slow. So ntl find themselves making thier 150k customers really happy with more service for nothing, and also running the risk of seeing less revenue as some 600k customers see an achievable downgrade.

Good point. I don't know, but I'm sure it must have been discussed (at the NTL meeting). But I suppose higher speeds (and caps apparently) is the way broadband is progressing at the moment. 600k has served me fine for the past couple of years, so I might decide to drop down at some point. But then again, online tele looks very enticing, so my bandwidth hunger my grow exponentially

Free upgrade?

Come on, who are they kidding?
A bit like going to mcdonalds and asking for a big mac, and the assistant asks you for £1 more than you paid last time you bought one, and when you question the increase they reply " Oh well, we're giving you a quarter of burger free ".
If NTL want to show they are serious, let them get shut of the 1gb limit.
As somebody said, you will just reach the limit quicker.