Brexit - Page 18

papa smurf · 21-03-2019, 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick

The Revoke Art 50 Petition has surpassed a million signatories in very short time thanks to the Media helping it go viral. (I also suspect dubious processes are in play here also).

As usual, London bubble very heavy in favour of revoking according to the map, not that my response would be, when it passes 17.4 Million, we should care but should it ever do (very unlikely), perhaps we should demand a second petition, fair is fair right?

We can call it the peoples petition.

**Damien** · 21-03-2019, 15:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris

As Papa Smurf says, if you’re partial to a Pot Noodle, now might be a good time to make sure your cupboard is stocked ...

I have lots of wine stocked up so all good.

By the way when I was talking about the Tories getting the blame largely for this this poll suggests that's currently what'll happen:

Labour will come out better than the Tories but The Liberal Democrats and the SNP will largely be unharmed IMO. Obviously how people perceive the actual vote might changes things but I don't think radically so. This is why I think no deal = Corbyn (and why he is letting it happen essentially).

**Mick** · 21-03-2019, 15:33

So not only can people who don't live in UK sign it, it can be signed multiple times

Quote:

That petition is worthless!! I’ve put my name on it 5 times already and I don’t live or even come from the UK!!

3:07 pm - 21 Mar 2019

https://twitter.com/Latinogar/status...46898968588290

jfman · 21-03-2019, 16:08

That attribution of blame table is why rescinding (via 2nd ref) is in the long term more likely than no deal.

Carth · 21-03-2019, 16:21

I was always under the impression that the 'blame culture' was a thing of the past, however when things start to look a little sticky I presume finger pointing is the way forward

I don't mind if everyone wants to blame me, just give me £200,000 and I'll take the hit for whoever needs a scapegoat

Sephiroth · 21-03-2019, 16:24

Who is going to rescind A50?

jfman · 21-03-2019, 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Who is going to rescind A50?

Anyone after a second referendum (as long as remain wins). This way Government/Parliament/(insert party) can spread the blame with the electorate.

**Mick** · 21-03-2019, 17:07

BREAKING: EU summit draft conclusions say the European Union can agree an extension to Article 50 until 22 May on the condition that Theresa May's withdrawal agreement is approved by Parliament next week. Source: Sky News.

No deal Brexit it is then.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman

Anyone after a second referendum (as long as remain wins). This way Government/Parliament/(insert party) can spread the blame with the electorate.

They better get their skates on then, they have a week to get it all set up.

But No - not anyone, Article 50 can only be revoked by Royal Prerogative Powers and that can only be done via the Prime Minister and in some cases, members of Cabinet, I doubt they will do so without the consent of the PM or Her Majesty, the Queen. They could hold a vote in Parliament next week, but the PM is within her right to ignore the request, if they vote to do so.

We already had a referendum in 2016, leave won. There will not be another second referendum and Parliament rejected that last week.

jfman · 21-03-2019, 17:18

It only got rejected once, which is once less than May's deal so far.

You seem to be assuming things will remain at present, and ignore the possibility circumstances and events will intervene. Once the panic sets in next week it'll all change. We've played our cards, the EU didn't blink as expected. We did. We don't have the required legislation in place for no deal on March 29th, and the EU aren't going to force us out unnecessarily if it's in their interests. Remember, they've £39bn at stake as the Brexiteers like to remind us.

Politicians don't want the blame for this, they'll take the easy way out as always. If the Farage march is anything to go by the numbers that'll be upset will be infinitesimally small.

**Mick** · 21-03-2019, 17:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman

It only got rejected once, which is once less than May's deal so far.

You seem to be assuming things will remain at present, and ignore the possibility circumstances and events will intervene. Once the panic sets in next week it'll all change. We've played our cards, the EU didn't blink as expected. We did. We don't have the required legislation in place for no deal on March 29th, and the EU aren't going to force us out unnecessarily if it's in their interests. Remember, they've £39bn at stake as the Brexiteers like to remind us.

Politicians don't want the blame for this, they'll take the easy way out as always.

The legislation is already legislated and passed in to law, what part of that do you not understand?

The law states, we leave the EU on 29th March, deal or no deal.

jfman · 21-03-2019, 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick

The legislation is already legislated and passed in to law, what part of that do you know understand?

The law states, we leave the EU on 29th March, deal or no deal.

No it doesn't. That's your interpretation of the law. However the EU Withdrawal Act would only leave us in the EU, and in breach of treaty obligations, if there's an extension and it's not amended.

It's a virtual certainty we will be in the European Union on the 30th March either way.

pip08456 · 21-03-2019, 17:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman

No it doesn't. That's your interpretation of the law. However the EU Withdrawal Act would only leave us in the EU, and in breach of treaty obligations, if there's an extension and it's not amended.

It's a virtual certainty we will be in the European Union on the 30th March either way.

At present there is no extention and no need for amendment. As it stands we leave on 29th as per A50.

jfman · 21-03-2019, 17:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip08456

At present there is no extention and no need for amendment. As it stands we leave on 29th as per A50.

Yet we need an extension to facilitate the Government's deal to pass the necessary legislation. If May's deal get's voted down we are still in the same position - with gaps in legislation.

I agree - if literally nobody took any action between now and 29th March - we would leave the EU. There's zero chance of that happening because politicians will not want to live with the consequences.

No deal will leave us with a long extension. The EU are only avoiding saying this to help May get her deal passed so we can get the deal they want backstop and all.

**Mick** · 21-03-2019, 17:39

May's deal will not pass - she pretty much sealed it's fate last night when she attacked and blamed them (MPs), rather than herself.

pip08456 · 21-03-2019, 17:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman

No deal will leave us with a long extension. The EU are only avoiding saying this to help May get her deal passed so we can get the deal they want backstop and all.

The EU are not interested in the UK government not having legislation in place.
It is not in their remit nor any of their business and will not permit an extention on that basis.