Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797] - Page 174

dav · 08-04-2008, 08:43

I have a particular disdain and vitriol reserved for the phrase, "public relations," much the same as "estate agents" or "traffic wardens."
These are words usually uttered through clenched teeth or have their letters punched heavily on my keyboard.

However, in the interests of looking out for the interests of fellow human beings (much the same as Phorm's "anti-phishing service"), are the PR companies involved in this venture leaving themselves open to accusations along the lines of "Incitement to Commit Criminal Acts" when this dog of an idea finally falls foul of the law?

I'm no legal eagle, so I was wondering what was the extent of liability these companies are carrying.

---------- Post added at 08:43 ---------- Previous post was at 07:50 ----------

popper: the serving of ads to minors is an obvious worry and I can't see how Phorm can ignore the fact that they opening themselves up to all kinds of legal woes.
Their assertion that people use individual accounts on shared computers and that kids accounts could be opted-out is clearly erroneous. It only takes one accidental click by the child to opt themselves back in. This is then, by definition, not with informed consent making interception of subsequent traffic illegal.
However where, as in the case of our household, PC's are run on a single account with access open to all, Phorm have absolutely no way of knowing if the traffic is being generated by a minor. Subsequent serving of advertising to said minor is therefore subject to a far stricter set of rules. Has there been any comment from the ASA on this?
Is it something worth following?

A straw-pole of colleagues has shown that very few people operate their home PC's with individual accounts for individual family members. Yet again, planet Kent bears no relation to the real world.

Florence · 08-04-2008, 10:22

I agree with day this pc has one login I use it my husband could use it my daughter does when she is home from Uni plus if my son and his gf visit they use it.

A lot of irrelivant adds there for me, it would be a waste of energy to login and out for every user if they are only looking at a few things so on a few mins search.

I have now moved to a phorm phree ISP but will continue the fight for all ISPs to be phorm phree.

AlexanderHanff · 08-04-2008, 10:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winston Smith

This may not be at all relevant but according to the ICO website the Privacy and Electronic Communications Regulations seem to be fairly strict about direct marketing. Surely this would fall under that, as I understand the way Phorms system works its using targetted adverts based on your own browsing history. I admit I havent read the detailed guidance (IANAL and legalese doesnt half seem to be complex for the sake of being complex). To quote a part of their guidance:

Marketers cannot send, or instigate the sending of, unsolicited marketing material by electronic mail to an individual subscriber unless the subscriber has previously notified them that they consent, for the time being, to receiving such communications. There is an exception to this rule which has been widely referred to as the ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‹Å“soft opt-inÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‹Å“ (Regulation 22(2) refers).

&

Oops - missed the last sentence:
It all seems to refer to opt-in - in that you have to give your consent.

I know it all refers to email but is it at all similar?

WinstonS

Winston,

If you check out my article-in-progress I cover PECR quite extensively. You can find it here:

http://www.paladine.org.uk/phorm_paper.pdf

Alexander Hanff

manxminx · 08-04-2008, 11:05

Regarding the Mi-info Press release located at:"No Need for Bad-Phorm Approach to Online Advertising"

Sophie from Mi-info has asked me to pass on the following message:

We are genuine and we stand against spam. Our address is The Coach House, Prince Harry Road, Henley In Arden, Warwickshire, B95 5DD. Our telephone number is 01564 792861, feel free to give us a call- a human being will pick up the phone and we have no connection to BT other than internet provider like many others!

Ali.

(It should be noted that the only connection I have to Mi-info is that Sophie and I have been emailing each other regarding Phorm)

AlexanderHanff · 08-04-2008, 11:05

With regards the Phorm interview with Kent, I have decided not to accept this invitation due to the way they blatantly misquoted Dr Richard Clayton last weekend on their blog. I refuse to be a puppet in their PR campaign.

I think my efforts are best directed at finishing my article and fighting Phorm in the public domain. Incidentally I put in my application request for my Masters in Law (LL.M) yesterday and have decided from this point forward my life will be dedicated to fighting the dogmatic attack on society's fundamental rights to privacy. Thank you Phorm for helping to steer my career in a direction that will enable me to fight you and your ilk from the legal arena.

Alexander Hanff

CaptJamieHunter · 08-04-2008, 11:13

A little birdie tells me there might be a statement from Virgin Media today. Might not be around later to comment further, previous commitments mean I'm away from station for most of today.

In the meantime see how BT rewards unethical behaviour: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/04...vingstone_ceo/

bigbadcol · 08-04-2008, 11:20

hi PhormUKPRteam,

You were wrong about the weather over the weekend. No rain, just some snow.

Nothing to say at the moment? You must have a LOT of time on your hands if you scan spend it hanging about in a forum doing nothing.

hope you have a good day and the weather is not too bad in your part of the world.

OF1975 · 08-04-2008, 11:36

Ok its time to take this to the next level. Writing to MPs and MEPs is all good and well, and it was important that we did it, but nothing will really start happening until there is an investigation by the police. I am more than happy to write an official letter to the Computer Crime Unit of the Metropolitan police but am happy to admit that letter writing is not my forte.

If anyone wants to help me draft the letter then I am happy to send it registered post to them. That way if they still refuse to issue a Crime Reference Number we can complain to the Police Complaints Commission.

If you have some time and the inclination to help me write it then you can send me a private message here on cable forum or just respond in the forum and we can work on it.

CaptJamieHunter · 08-04-2008, 11:50

"Phorm has admitted that it deleted key factual parts of the Wikipedia article about the huge controversy fired by its advertising profiling deals with BT, Virgin Media and Carphone Warehouse...."

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/04...ors_wikipedia/

OF1975 · 08-04-2008, 11:56

Oops my bad. Jamie beat me to it on the article re Wikipedia. Good going that man!

CaptJamieHunter · 08-04-2008, 12:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by OF1975

Oops my bad. Jamie beat me to it on the article re Wikipedia. Good going that man!

While my bath is being drawn and my mug of tea is still half full I'm not going anywhere

Ravenheart · 08-04-2008, 12:02

I was without tea all morning until Mr Sainsbury's delivered my shopping a few mins ago. Normal service will now be resumed

Keep up the great work people.

kt88man · 08-04-2008, 12:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptJamieHunter

"Phorm has admitted that it deleted key factual parts of the Wikipedia article about the huge controversy fired by its advertising profiling deals with BT, Virgin Media and Carphone Warehouse...."

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/04...ors_wikipedia/

It {BT} said that the aim of the trial was to validate that users were unaware of the presence of the tracking system.

Says it all... I'm sure that BT would like users to be unaware.

brundles · 08-04-2008, 12:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptJamieHunter

"Phorm has admitted that it deleted key factual parts of the Wikipedia article about the huge controversy fired by its advertising profiling deals with BT, Virgin Media and Carphone Warehouse...."

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/04...ors_wikipedia/

I think this extract (Phorms view of the BT trial) from that article says it all...

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Reg

It said that the aim of the trial was to validate that users were unaware of the presence of the tracking system.

Ravenheart · 08-04-2008, 12:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by kt88man

It {BT} said that the aim of the trial was to validate that users were unaware of the presence of the tracking system.

Says it all... I'm sure that BT would like users to be unaware.

Spot on, but the thing was they got rumbled in the trials last year and lied to customers about it.