23-09-2021, 18:52
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#2566
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: At the Leaving door
Posts: 4,050
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Far too sensible
2/10
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23-09-2021, 19:54
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#2567
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,098
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456
Surely if the driver shortage is due to brexit then the EU would have no shortages. If EU shortages are less than 100,000 then the alledged shortage here due to EU drivers returning home would have filled those vacancies in the EU.
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23-09-2021, 20:08
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#2568
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,288
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees
What would you suggest we do instead of a capitalist society ?
To add, European countries don’t have the same level of shortages as we do, and they operate in a similar if not the same way regarding pay and conditions (albeit truck stops on the French autoroutes are far far superior to ours for example)
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Gotta feel a bit sorry for the Brexiters on the thread tonight. More triggers for them here than an Only Fools and Horses boxset.
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23-09-2021, 20:11
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#2569
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Architect of Ideas
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,475
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456
Surely if the driver shortage is due to brexit then the EU would have no shortages. If EU shortages are less than 100,000 then the alledged shortage here due to EU drivers returning home would have filled those vacancies in the EU.
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And if EU shortages were more than 100,000 they could all go home, the UK be affected and the EU still have shortages.
It’s not necessarily binary. But if migrants are flooding over the channel to claim benefits as the right wing press suggest I’d imagine the odd one or two would drive lorries for the minimum wage while sleeping in the cab, posting home their wages to and eastern European shanty town with their tax credits and child benefit.
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23-09-2021, 22:02
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#2570
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The Dark Satanic Mills
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: floating in the ether
Posts: 12,072
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1
Gotta feel a bit sorry for the Brexiters on the thread tonight. More triggers for them here than an Only Fools and Horses boxset.
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Why would you feel sorry for them? They got what they wanted.
__________________
The wheel's still turning but the hamsters dead.
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23-09-2021, 22:06
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#2571
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,288
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre
Why would you feel sorry for them? They got what they wanted.
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They wanted a trade deal with the US which Johnson said would be easy. Instead they're discussing empty shelves and HGV driver shortages.
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23-09-2021, 22:08
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#2572
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The Dark Satanic Mills
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: floating in the ether
Posts: 12,072
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1
They wanted a trade deal with the US which Johnson said would be easy. Instead they're discussing empty shelves and HGV driver shortages.
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No, they wanted to leave the EU.
__________________
The wheel's still turning but the hamsters dead.
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23-09-2021, 22:28
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#2573
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,288
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre
No, they wanted to leave the EU.
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They're not mutually exclusive.
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23-09-2021, 22:38
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#2574
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The Dark Satanic Mills
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: floating in the ether
Posts: 12,072
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1
They're not mutually exclusive.
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Well you are projecting what you think they wanted into your argument. At any point where you say what “they” wanted is pure speculation on your behalf.
The only concrete and irrefutable conclusion from the referendum is that the U.K. population was asked if they want to leave the E.U. And they said yes.
That is it.
Anything else is conjecture, speculation, and any other similar word.
__________________
The wheel's still turning but the hamsters dead.
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23-09-2021, 22:45
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#2575
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Trollsplatter
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: North of Watford
Services: Humane elimination of all common Internet pests
Posts: 37,033
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1
Gotta feel a bit sorry for the Brexiters on the thread tonight. More triggers for them here than an Only Fools and Horses boxset.
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Not sure why you think this … it’s as if you’ve blanked everything we’ve been saying to you for the last 5 years.
Brexit is, and always has been, about fundamental changes in the way British laws are made and democratic accountability is ensured. Sure, for some people the symptoms of those things were what energised them to vote leave, rather than the principles themselves, but that’s fine with us because when it came to it, the democratic deficit became intolerable, as we knew it would. If something can’t continue, it won’t. That’s the irresistible gravitational force of politics. Brexit was always inevitable sooner or later.
In the face of that, Remainers never were able to muster a compelling philosophical argument in favour of the European Union. All their energy was expended on trying to use the likely short term difficulties of extricating ourselves from it to scare people, ultimately to little effect. In the event, the sky hasn’t fallen in and life has gone on. Remainers have been left with egg on their faces, and with a compulsive need to haunt forums like this, trumping up every little thing they read in the Grauniad and the “Independent” into a calamity, such is the gnawing fear that they (whisper it) might have been wrong.
Meanwhile, the first fruits of Brexit appear, as businesses accustomed to undercutting British wages with short-term east European imported labour discover that no, they really aren’t going to get away with that any longer. Sure it will mess their plans up this year and maybe next, but guess what … the 40 years we were in the EU were the aberration, not the 40 before that and not the 40 yet to come.
Stop cutting yourself up over it. Everything’s going to be just fine.
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23-09-2021, 22:50
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#2576
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,288
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre
Well you are projecting what you think they wanted into your argument. At any point where you say what “they” wanted is pure speculation on your behalf.
The only concrete and irrefutable conclusion from the referendum is that the U.K. population was asked if they want to leave the E.U. And they said yes.
That is it.
Anything else is conjecture, speculation, and any other similar word.
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No projection from me, plenty of sources state it.
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23-09-2021, 23:03
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#2577
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Sulking in the Corner
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: RG41
Services: 1 Gbps; Hub 4 MM; ASUS RT-AX88U; Ultimate VOLT. BT Infinity2; Devolo 1200AV
Posts: 11,955
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees
Indeed, nice innit ??
Travelling across France, Germany & Austria a couple of years ago on the bike and the difference in roads and services between the U.K. and those countries is night and day.
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Yep. Try getting a Schnitzel or something as tasty at Newport Pagnell Services.
__________________
Seph.
My advice is at your risk.
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23-09-2021, 23:05
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#2578
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,288
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris
Not sure why you think this … it’s as if you’ve blanked everything we’ve been saying to you for the last 5 years.
Brexit is, and always has been, about fundamental changes in the way British laws are made and democratic accountability is ensured. Sure, for some people the symptoms of those things were what energised them to vote leave, rather than the principles themselves, but that’s fine with us because when it came to it, the democratic deficit became intolerable, as we knew it would. If something can’t continue, it won’t. That’s the irresistible gravitational force of politics. Brexit was always inevitable sooner or later.
In the face of that, Remainers never were able to muster a compelling philosophical argument in favour of the European Union. All their energy was expended on trying to use the likely short term difficulties of extricating ourselves from it to scare people, ultimately to little effect. In the event, the sky hasn’t fallen in and life has gone on. Remainers have been left with egg on their faces, and with a compulsive need to haunt forums like this, trumping up every little thing they read in the Grauniad and the “Independent” into a calamity, such is the gnawing fear that they (whisper it) might have been wrong.
Meanwhile, the first fruits of Brexit appear, as businesses accustomed to undercutting British wages with short-term east European imported labour discover that no, they really aren’t going to get away with that any longer. Sure it will mess their plans up this year and maybe next, but guess what … the 40 years we were in the EU were the aberration, not the 40 before that and not the 40 yet to come.
Stop cutting yourself up over it. Everything’s going to be just fine.
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If things were fine then the government would be taking back control and checking imports and implementing the NI protocol. Clearly, things aren't and this list of what we're short of many months after we left the EU would give any PM sleepless nights.
If there was genuine concern about wages then the government could have raised the minimum wage. This would ensure that everyone's wages were reasonable. not just in-demand jobs.
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23-09-2021, 23:07
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#2579
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cf.mega pornstar
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,823
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris
Meanwhile, the first fruits of Brexit appear, as businesses accustomed to undercutting British wages with short-term east European imported labour discover that no, they really aren’t going to get away with that any longer. Sure it will mess their plans up this year and maybe next, but guess what … the 40 years we were in the EU were the aberration, not the 40 before that and not the 40 yet to come.
Stop cutting yourself up over it. Everything’s going to be just fine.
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I'm interested in this part, what do you think will happen now they can't undercut British wages with cheap imported labour? I remember banging on relentlessly about this 15+ years ago and no one seemed to care back then.
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23-09-2021, 23:10
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#2580
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Trollsplatter
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: North of Watford
Services: Humane elimination of all common Internet pests
Posts: 37,033
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1
If things were fine then the government would be taking back control and checking imports and implementing the NI protocol. Clearly, things aren't and this list of what we're short of many months after we left the EU would give any PM sleepless nights.
If there was genuine concern about wages then the government could have raised the minimum wage. This would ensure that everyone's wages were reasonable. not just in-demand jobs.
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Wow … you’re adding economic illiteracy to your short termism? Talk about doubling down.
I’m not even going to start on how raising the minimum wage across the entire economy in order to address problems in small parts of it (not all of which are even close to paying minimum wage) is complete loony tunes.
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