Relationships and religion - Page 17

Jon M · 01-12-2003, 11:30

proof is subjective.. a pointless request IMHO

I consider the complexity and order of creation as proof of a creator.. whereas you (i assume) will not.

Xaccers · 01-12-2003, 12:19

Moving slightly back on topic whilst also keeping in line what we've recently been discussing, how about people who adopt their partners faith so that they can get married?

Are they simply paying lip service so that they can be with the one they love?

Russ · 01-12-2003, 12:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Moving slightly back on topic whilst also keeping in line what we've recently been discussing, how about people who adopt their partners faith so that they can get married?

Are they simply paying lip service so that they can be with the one they love?

To be truly saved, one must mean it in their heart, so becoming a Christian just for the sake of it is impossible - God knows our hearts and true intentions, we can't fool Him.

01-12-2003, 12:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by msec

Mutually exclusive claims by definition logically contradict one another. However, please remember that this does not mean that all of them are false - just that *at most* one of them can be true.

I'm well aware of that. However in the absence of any concrete proof of either/ any of the claims, the most logical conclusion by Occam's Razor is still that none are true.

**Chris** · 01-12-2003, 12:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Moving slightly back on topic whilst also keeping in line what we've recently been discussing, how about people who adopt their partners faith so that they can get married?

Are they simply paying lip service so that they can be with the one they love?

It would be difficult to make a generalisation, but I know of the son of a family friend who 'converted' to Judaism in order to get married. His younger brother, who is my age, told me at the time that 'neither of them give a tos$ about their religion so they don't care'.

01-12-2003, 12:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bifta

People believe in black holes, yet they've never seen one, however, an expert in the field of quantum mechanics say's they exist so I guess they must!

The point, however, is that anyone can, if they wish, learn Quantum Physics and, *independantly* prove and demonstrate the existance of black holes according to our existing knowledge of physics.

There is no "faith" or "belief" involved.

**Chris** · 01-12-2003, 12:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham

The point, however, is that anyone can, if they wish, learn Quantum Physics and, *independantly* prove and demonstrate the existance of black holes according to our existing knowledge of physics.

There is no "faith" or "belief" involved.

Except of course the belief that our current understanding of physics is correct.

Nemesis · 01-12-2003, 12:48

Scenario

Phone rings and My mum asks what the weather is like .... I reply "It's Raining", as I'd seen spots of water on the window.

Mum then relays this information to all that she meets and greets throughout her day. However late on in the day, she relays this information to a friend who works in the same place as me, who argues that it wasn't raining at all, in fact it was sunny. The argument continues and as a result they fall out.

In actual fact the spots of water, were from a gardener watering the grounds, and splashing the window.

Was Mum wrong in what she believed .... ??

Were they wrong to argue .... ???

Faith is a personal thing, we all have faith in many things .... why do we feel the need to question what someone else believes in.

I know the analogy is very simple, but why can we not just accept each other for what we are, we are all Human, we have failings, we believe in certain things and disbelieve others.

The disblelievers seem to require proof that things do or don't exist, what does it matter?

The believers, just know things do or don't exist.

This is down to experience, and that again is personal.

The 'God Squad' on this site believe, so who are you/me to argue or try and pull that belief apart ?

Xaccers · 01-12-2003, 12:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by towny

It would be difficult to make a generalisation, but I know of the son of a family friend who 'converted' to Judaism in order to get married. His younger brother, who is my age, told me at the time that 'neither of them give a tos$ about their religion so they don't care'.

I guess it's kinda like me getting married in a church, the religious part doesn't matter to me, its my vow to my fiancee that is important

Tiptoes · 01-12-2003, 13:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xaccers

I guess it's kinda like me getting married in a church, the religious part doesn't matter to me, its my vow to my fiancee that is important

This is the point I was also making,

people do this primarily because they are forced to or becuase they dont want to upset other people within their community..

If the religous part doesnt matter then why go through with it?

It just annoys me that people do..

You shouldn't do something if you dont beleive in it...

Its an insult to those who do beleive in it if you do (My opinion) of course.

Xaccers · 01-12-2003, 14:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiptoes

This is the point I was also making,

people do this primarily because they are forced to or becuase they dont want to upset other people within their community..

If the religous part doesnt matter then why go through with it?

It just annoys me that people do..

You shouldn't do something if you dont beleive in it...

Its an insult to those who do beleive in it if you do (My opinion) of course.

Have you seen how naff registry office weddings can be?
Or how expensive romantic hotels are for wedding services?

I fancy getting married in an old building that happens to be a church. Course it's not the church I'd like to get married in, but "she who will be obeyed" has found the one we're using (its called compromise, or, knowing when to give in to have an easier life).
Got to point out to her tho, that if we have hymns, I'll have to sing them, and we really shouldn't force such a torture upon the guests

If other people want to enjoy the religious paraphanalia, let them.

**Chris** · 01-12-2003, 14:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiptoes

This is the point I was also making,

people do this primarily because they are forced to or becuase they dont want to upset other people within their community..

If the religous part doesnt matter then why go through with it?

It just annoys me that people do..

You shouldn't do something if you dont beleive in it...

Its an insult to those who do beleive in it if you do (My opinion) of course.

Personally, I don't get offended when 'non-' or 'nominal' Christians want to get married in a Church (or attend a carol service for that matter, seeing as the season is almost upon us).

The faith I have found has changed my life infinitely for the better and I truly believe it can do so for anyone. So I'm all for people putting themselves in situations where they get to hear about it! The marriage service, and your average carol service, both help explain what Christians believe.

(It always raises a smile with me when I see a determined agnostic like my dad heartily singing the last verse of O Little Town of Bethlehem - 'Cast out our sin and enter in, be born in us today!')

Xaccers · 01-12-2003, 14:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by towny

(It always raises a smile with me when I see a determined agnostic like my dad heartily singing the last verse of O Little Town of Bethlehem - 'Cast out our sin and enter in, be born in us today!')

It beats "rejoicing on the graves of sinners" that the JW's sang when I visited their kingdom hall...

**Chris** · 01-12-2003, 14:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xaccers

It beats "rejoicing on the graves of sinners" that the JW's sang when I visited their kingdom hall...

I had no idea they sang that sort of stuff ... I've seen some of their door-to-door answer-for-everything books and their 'translation' of the Bible but I've never seen a JW hymn book.

Xaccers · 01-12-2003, 14:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by towny

I had no idea they sang that sort of stuff ... I've seen some of their door-to-door answer-for-everything books and their 'translation' of the Bible but I've never seen a JW hymn book.

It did shock me a tad at the time.
Wish I could remember the title, but alas only that line sticks in my memory.

I remember they had a speaker, doing rather well at telling the kids not to be afraid to stand up for their beliefs if their friends tried to get them to do anything that was against what they believed was wrong.
Then he ended with "so remember children, beware athiests, they will lead you astray"
That line kinda spoilt it for me.