Muslims to march in London

[Saaf_laandon_mo]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

Steps in the right direction

I have attended many talks/discussions where Hamza Yusuf has been the main speaker, the most recent one being last week, where a lot of the discussion concerned the cartoon issue and how to deal with it.

I would recommend anyone here to read stuff by Hamza Yusuf (not to be mistaken for Abu Hamza), and you will draw a lot of positiveness from what renowned scholars are saying about Islam.

The problem in the UK is that we've had front page coverage of rantings by Abu Hamza, and similar idiots while the press seem to ignore the speeches given by scholars such as Hamza Yusuf who actually have a much larger following then the extremist element.

I would also recommend Zaid Shakir to those who want to hear more from visionary islamic scholars

[punky]

Originally Posted by danielf

I think that anyone (particularly a minister) who wears a shirt like that is an irresponsible idiot as well. He says the t-shirts are not meant as a provocation. Well, what does he expect will happen?

That's the point. He wants to be assaulted. He wants someone to bite knowing he can turn around and say "Look, I told you they were like this..". He has a vested interest in this because of his anti-immigrant platform he is running on. He wants to martyr himself to hurt the migrant/Muslim cause.

I don't think anyone wearing that shirt for whatever reason excuses any form of violence against the person. However, it highlights more than ever the need for restraint from all Muslims, extremist or otherwise.

[marky]

The Government has ammended the terror bill to re include glorifying

Originally Posted by marky

The Government has ammended the terror bill to re include glorifying

What a difference a couple of months makes in government...

[punky]

Originally Posted by Incognitas

What a difference a couple of months makes in government...

And some placards. You can't buy that publicity. What a timely reminder to the MPs of what they are up against.

Goverment seems to have had a good week, everyone had doom day predictions for Blair because of the 3 votes this week

Is the education bill this week

Originally Posted by marky

The Government has ammended the terror bill to re include glorifying

Orior has just started a separate thread on that issue, there is an overlap between this thread and that one but it's worth trying to keep them distinct. Anyone with something to say about it can see it here:

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/sh...ad.php?t=43121

[Chrysalis]

Originally Posted by marky

The Government has ammended the terror bill to re include glorifying

The muslims cant complain since some placards were saying no to freedom of speach so they got that part

[marky]

I thought it was on topic, and not worth its own thread, but never mind.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

Nice piece of cherry picking Xaccers,

Please use the quotes tag.

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

Why is the west not at war with Saudi Arabia where the majority of the hijackers came from or is this a sort of "pick and choose" war on terror?

Was it sanctioned by King Fahd? No.
Were the 9/11 bombers working for the Saudi monarchy, or did some of them happen to just be Saudi citizens? That would be the latter wouldn't it?
Is the Saudi monarchy and ally to Al Qeada or a foe? That would be foe, after King Fahd chose the allied forces to protect Saudi Arabia against Saddam during the first gulf war.
So, considering the Saudi's are fighting Al Qaeda, why on earth would the US go to war with them?

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

No. But then again are the colateral, non military, deaths of innocent civilians caught in a war "going about their business" in Iraq, Afghanistan or wherever not evil actions also?

Any deliberate targetting of civilians not participating in combat is evil.

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

Remarkable, I don't recall the ANC who swept to power, ever denouncuing their, or his, actions.

That wasn't the question you asked.

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

They funded him and trained him. Now they feign shock at his actions? Come on.

And at no point did Western goverments consider him a freedom fighter.
Nor are they shocked at his actions.
He's been anti-west since at least 1991.
Surely you knew that?

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

We don't all have your remarkable insight - nor am I discussing anything beyond the photographs published in the Danish papers and the fact that they, as reported worldwide beyond Leighton Buzzard, were the catalyst for the current protests.

You have google though right?
I'm pretty sure that it's available in your neck of the woods, and not just Leighton Buzzard.

[Mr Angry]

Xaccers, I'm a bit s**t with this quote / snip malarkey - sorry.

With all due respect I'm not really prepared to discuss this matter with you any further for several reasons.

1. I don't take kindly to beng accused of supporting / condoning terrorism.

2. Charles Clarke has, by his own admission, today introduced a law which would effectively endorse the (re)jailing of Nelson Mandela - currently acknowledged as one of the world's greatest statesmen (but still a convicted terrorist).

3. The US, through their Whitehouse spokesman Bryan Whitman, have today conceded that the exercising of Freedom of Speech and the publication of these images "will further inflame and cause unnecessary violence in the world".

I really don't see how much more clarity could be required in respect of my post last night.

It's not me you're arguing with now but the British Government's legisliature and the Whitehouse's senior spokesman.

I'm glad that we agree wholeheartedly on the matter of "Any deliberate targetting of civilians not participating in combat is evil". But it MUST work both ways - whether you see the perpetrator as a soldier or a terrorist.

That aside, thanks for your sympathy on another thread regarding our burglary last week. A pretty testing time. You'll be glad to hear I've ordered up a new custom Yale wireless system and arranged for a mate to fit twin FAMAS 5.56's (see, I do know a bit) to prevent any reoccurance.

Best

Paul

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

Charles Clarke has, by his own admission, today introduced a law which would effectively endorse the (re)jailing of Nelson Mandela - currently acknowledged as one of the world's greatest statesmen (but still a convicted terrorist).

Mandela served his time for his crimes.
As such any further incarceration would not be endorsed, unless he was convicted of further crimes committed since his release.

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

The US, through their Whitehouse spokesman Bryan Whitman, have today conceded that the exercising of Freedom of Speech and the publication of these images "will further inflame and cause unnecessary violence in the world".

In reference to Australian TV showing images of the abuse of Iraqi's by US soldiers (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/4718328.stm) and not in reference to the cartoons or anything else which came out of Denmark.

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

I'm glad that we agree wholeheartedly on the matter of "Any deliberate targetting of civilians not participating in combat is evil". But it MUST work both ways - whether you see the perpetrator as a soldier or a terrorist.

The problem is it doesn't work both ways.
When a soldier is found to be deliberately targetting civilians not participating in combat, he is punished by his peers.
When a terrorist does it, he is revered by his peers.

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

That aside, thanks for your sympathy on another thread regarding our burglary last week. A pretty testing time. You'll be glad to hear I've ordered up a new custom Yale wireless system and arranged for a mate to fit twin FAMAS 5.56's (see, I do know a bit) to prevent any reoccurance.

I'd go for a couple of G36's; firstly they aren't french ( ), and secondly they're a lot more reliable

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

You'll be glad to hear I've ordered up a new custom Yale wireless system and arranged for a mate to fit twin FAMAS 5.56's (see, I do know a bit) to prevent any reoccurance.

Save your money on the alarm system

[punky]

Oh dear.

Originally Posted by punky

Oh dear.

It gets worse...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/4728616.stm

When will these bloody lunatics let it go?