European Terror Attacks

[heero_yuy]

Originally Posted by Russ

Absolutely there does - I agree with everyone who says they ought to lighten up however are they really going to listen to us?

No. But I seem to remember the phrase "Vengeance is mine sayeth the lord"

Maybe they're so frightened that nothing will happen from their deity that they have to take the law into their own hands.

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

78% of British Muslims asked thought those who made the Danish cartoons in 2005 should've been prosecuted for causing them offence and indeed blaspheming against them.

That is actually from a survey, not pulled from my hindmost.

78% of British Muslims find the idea of free speech, which isn't causing anyone any physical harm or putting them in danger, offensive, because Sunni Islam tells them to.

In common with the vast majority of the UK I do not share those beliefs, in common with much of the UK while I have no problem with those holding them I do not respect those beliefs as I find all religions absurd to one degree or another.

Our society doesn't give offence, people choose to take it. Are we to pander to this and indefinitely modify our own laws, as we have been, whenever enough decide to take offence at something?

How many other religions do anything beyond rolling their eyes when they are criticised, parodied or mocked, and what makes this one so special that the BBC should go out of its way to explicitly avoid offending it beyond threats of violence anyone in the public eye questioning it seem to get?

.

None of which is anything to do with the claim that Gary made

They had a chance to all stand together and publish cartoons on the day after the attack and all bottled it.

"Bottled it"? I take it from that remark that you support the deliberate antagonising and offending of Muslims ,is that because they are Muslims or because they are religious .I don't really care because in my opinion you and people with your attitude are as much part of the problem as the nutters with the guns

I have no idea why our press are so much more cowardly than those in Germany and other European nations.

If you think that printing cartoons that are designed to deliberately offend and mock a religion are a sign of solidarity then it is not surprising that you "have no idea"

[Russ]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

No. But I seem to remember the phrase "Vengeance is mine sayeth the lord"

True but I'm guessing it's likely those with faith are unlikely to take such advice from those without.

[heero_yuy]

Originally Posted by Russ

True but I'm guessing it's likely those with faith are unlikely to take such advice from those without.

Very true but with all the heretics throughout the centuries you would have thought that fire and brimstone would be regularly falling from the heavens on the malefactors but... nothing.

Originally Posted by Pierre

But we can deliberately take the piddle though can't we?

It all depends in what form and to who you take the piddle of .The magazine had a long and very controversial history of offending Muslims and have had reprisal attacks in the past,they have deliberately set out to offend an entire community and unfortunately and sadly people not connected with them have suffered the consequencies

Now now, don't throw around statistics and percentages you have no way of substantiating.

It's a figure of speech you pedantic git

That's fine for the BBC, but anyone else is free to antagonise Muslims as much as they want.

Why are they ?

---------- Post added at 16:16 ---------- Previous post was at 16:11 ----------

Originally Posted by Pierre

They should have been antagonistic, the free press should have collectively raised their kilts and waved their cocks in the face of radical Islam.

.

Hold on a moment ,you just said people should be free to antagonise Muslims and now your saying radical Islam ,which is it ? there is a very big difference

Originally Posted by martyh

It all depends in what form and to who you take the piddle of .The magazine had a long and very controversial history of offending Muslims and have had reprisal attacks in the past,they have deliberately set out to offend an entire community and unfortunately and sadly people not connected with them have suffered the consequencies



It's a figure of speech you pedantic git



Why are they ?

---------- Post added at 16:16 ---------- Previous post was at 16:11 ----------



Hold on a moment ,you just said people should be free to antagonise Muslims and now your saying radical Islam ,which is it ? there is a very big difference

tbf, they were equal opportunity offenders - they often were satirical to Christians and Jews as well....

But no Christians or Jews tried to firebomb or kill them for it...

Originally Posted by nomadking

People have no qualms about offending Christianity.

Surely the rules for offence at images of Mohammed are just for other Muslims and not for other beliefs or non-beliefs. There has to be a sense of proportion at having been offended.

Of course there should and the vast majority of Muslims accept they don't have to go on a shooting spree because someone outside of their religion shows no respect or understanding

---------- Post added at 16:36 ---------- Previous post was at 16:30 ----------

Originally Posted by Hugh

tbf, they were equal opportunity offenders - they often were satirical to Christians and Jews as well....

But no Christians or Jews tried to firebomb or kill them for it...

Indeed ,there must be a lesson in there somewhere....... maybe it's not to deliberately insult,offend or antagonise a group of people who have a history of killing people for being offensive .

[BumFace]

Face facts people. Islam is a dangerous mind virus that has no place in the Western world. It needs to be contained and then eradicated like a contagious disease. The question is what politician will have the balls to do it. If no-one steps up to the task, war between the West and Islam may be unavoidable.

You think I'm kidding?

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by martyh

Indeed ,there must be a lesson in there somewhere....... maybe it's not to deliberately insult,offend or antagonise a group of people who have a history of killing people for being offensive .

So appease for fear of reprisal.

What a fine tribute to those who stood up for their legally provided freedom of speech and the press.

---------- Post added at 17:20 ---------- Previous post was at 17:14 ----------

Originally Posted by martyh

"Bottled it"? I take it from that remark that you support the deliberate antagonising and offending of Muslims ,is that because they are Muslims or because they are religious .I don't really care because in my opinion you and people with your attitude are as much part of the problem as the nutters with the guns

You take it wrong. I support the right, in a modern and liberal society, for a free press to deliberately antagonise and leave open the possibility of offense for any group.

May I also mention that equating 'me and people with my attitude' as being as much a part of the problem as those two terrorists who killed 12 people is an incredibly low and extremely loathsome comment to make.

I would use stronger words but this isn't the place for that.

Originally Posted by martyh

If you think that printing cartoons that are designed to deliberately offend and mock a religion are a sign of solidarity then it is not surprising that you "have no idea"

Evidently an awful lot of editors across Europe seemed to agree that it was a sign of solidarity given they actually did it, and in the case of some in the UK would have done it had they not, and they admitted this, feared for their staff had they done so.

You see this is what you don't get even though I made it quite clear. For me religion isn't something that can't be criticised, parodied and mocked. You may consider it otherwise, I don't, and the law shouldn't.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

So appease for fear of reprisal.

Or increase the satire and encourage a reprisal? This is what I mean, there's no straightforward response.

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

So appease for fear of reprisal.

What a fine tribute to those who stood up for their legally provided freedom of speech and the press.

Utter rubbish .In the real world if you go around upsetting a bunch lunatics with guns and bombs then you will be blown up or shot nothing whatsoever to do with free speech and your right to use it .If you want free speech then at least accept the responsibility that goes with it.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Russ

Or increase the satire and encourage a reprisal? This is what I mean, there's no straightforward response.

Just once it would've been awesome if everyone had printed the cartoons. Just a one-off, that way no-one had stuck their head over the parapet if you see what I mean, Russ?

---------- Post added at 17:30 ---------- Previous post was at 17:27 ----------

Originally Posted by martyh

Utter rubbish .In the real world if you go around upsetting a bunch lunatics with guns and bombs then you will be blown up or shot nothing whatsoever to do with free speech and your right to use it .If you want free speech then at least accept the responsibility that goes with it.

I do.

They had a chance to all stand together and publish cartoons on the day after the attack and all bottled it.

That way no one publication stuck its head over the parapet and made a target of itself.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Just once it would've been awesome if everyone had printed the cartoons. Just a one-off, that way no-one had stuck their head over the parapet if you see what I mean, Russ?

Yes I do, it would have put out a great message however do you think it would have made all the nutter Muslims around the world shrug their shoulders and accept how unreasonable they are?

Or do you think it could have led to something else?

[Mr Angry]

James O'Brien.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Russ

Yes I do, it would have put out a great message however do you think it would have made all the nutter Muslims around the world shrug their shoulders and accept how unreasonable they are?

Or do you think it could have led to something else?

I don't know; it would have been more a gesture for the benefit of 'us' rather than 'them'.

The response to previous terrorist attacks on and off our soil has been to carry on, this feels different for all the wrong reasons. Our press has been thoroughly cowed and I'm worried what's next to be ceded due to fear of these mentalists.

We all knew that much of our press was going out of its way to avoid 'offence', this just put it into sharper focus. It's a real pity, and drawing a line in the sand would've been good.

---------- Post added at 17:38 ---------- Previous post was at 17:36 ----------

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

James O'Brien.

Not even remotely interested in apologies, they have nothing to apologise for.

Far more concerned about the majorities / large minorities of British Muslims who, when surveyed, continued to harbour beliefs that were, frankly, alarming.

I don't see how changing our society helps with integration and change, it merely reinforces ongoing behaviour.