Unstoppable migration?

[heero_yuy]

Originally Posted by Damien

As Osem said we should target the traffickers. However the long-term answer is for the UK and others to work towards making the countries they're fleeing less horrid to live in.

You could of course make the UK even more horrid....

[adzii_nufc]

Damien got it correct, that's the only proper solution.

Would we all be content if David Cameron allowed the US to fire drone missiles at targets in the UK so long as they're terror suspects? Anyone else killed is merely collateral damage and fine because they got the target.

Take that situation and apply it to places in Pakistan because that's exactly what's happening. Both US and UK drones are letting missiles off the chain at will and whilst taking out countless terror suspects, they've picked up plenty of innocents along the way. Seems to avoid world news pretty well.

That's just one case of the horrid country they live in and why they're so quick to jump ship.

In actual fact migrants ,legal or illegal ,EU or non EU get very little of our benefits budget


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...-benefits.html

[Arthurgray50@blu]

Watching the Tv news this evening, the problem is now getting well out of hand.
And reading that the migrants tried to board a ferry, and they were hosed on by the crew. Means that they are determined to get to the UK

I know that many members thinks that l have a hatred for them, that's totally wrong.

I believe that the UK is a brilliant country, we are open, we are open to free speech. And yes we have many things going for us.

But, a major problem is that we have an 'open door' compared to other countries.

This cannot be right. I feel for the Lorry drivers that have to go through the terrible problems, such as migrants throwing stones at the drivers etc etc

The government have do something quickly before a trucker goes mad and kills someone - and then who will be the guilty person.

And l don't read the Daily Mail, l read the Mirror

Two sides of the same coin, Arthur - the Mail tries to inflame its Right Wing readers, the Mirror its Left Wing readers, with material that feeds their prejudices.

They are both very biased, just to different markets...

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

And those that are fleeing places such as Libya, Syria or other places with terrible human rights abuses we just boot them out, yes?

Lest we forget of course the cards we played in places such as Libya and Syria that led people to leave in the first place

How many more times. THEY ARE NOT FLEEING LIBYA. They are actually going INTO Libya. Libya is just a convenient access point to southern Italy, just as Calais is a convenient access point to the UK. Look at those trying to get on the lorries. Not many(if any) Syrians there.

The spider's web is at its most complex here. Some of these journeys are epic, with sub-Saharan and West African migrants crossing two perilous seas, one of sand and one of water, before arriving in Europe.
These journeys can take weeks or years to complete, with young men from Gambia, Senegal and Nigeria passing through several countries and relying heavily on people smugglers.
Among the largest groups crossing from Libya this year: thousands of Eritreans fleeing long-term conscription, as well as large numbers of Somalis and Nigerians.
In the eastern Mediterranean, huge numbers of Syrians cross from Turkey to Greece, accompanied by Afghans and Iraqis.

---------- Post added at 20:27 ---------- Previous post was at 20:23 ----------

Originally Posted by Gary L

So basically it's not much different to what a UK born person would get then?

somewhere to live. money. Dr. NHS.

Luxury to them.

You forgot the car.

Must have missed the bit where as a mere UK citizen that I am entitled to a place to live?

[mrmistoffelees]

Ah yes Somalia Gambia and Senegal the shining light of human rights

And don't tell me that no Libyans have tried to flee you're talking twaddle

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by nomadking

Must have missed the bit where as a mere UK citizen that I am entitled to a place to live?

Well you got the car. so I don't know what you're complaining about.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Ah yes Somalia Gambia and Senegal the shining light of human rights

And don't tell me that no Libyans have tried to flee you're talking twaddle

They are not being "bombed" by the West, which is the CONSTANTLY BOGUS accusation. People go to these places on holiday.

How many Libyans in the figures? If it's that dangerous in Libya, why are most of them travelling TO Libya?

[Arthurgray50@blu]

I believe that we are now having a go at each other over this matter.

On TV tonight, l saw these migrants trying desperately to get into Lorries. I saw a female with a hood up trying to get into a Lorry, l believe she said that she came from Ethiopia

And also they spoke with a male who has been there for several months - he said he HAS NO FAMILY and he is desperate to get to the UK

I believe WHAT I SEE ON THE NEWS CHANNELS, and please don't say that this is MADE UP FOR THE CAMERA. And some sort of propaganda by the media. This is Happening, and the poor truckers and Holidaymakers coming home are suffering

[adzii_nufc]

Originally Posted by nomadking

They are not being "bombed" by the West, which is the CONSTANTLY BOGUS accusation. People go to these places on holiday.

How many Libyans in the figures? If it's that dangerous in Libya, why are most of them travelling TO Libya?

It was only in 2011 the US let 105 missiles off the hook and blasted them into Libya, not to mention the ongoing presence of Islamic State in Libya. It's hardly the holiday destination you're making it out to be.

[Osem]

Although many of us might take some of these things for granted, if you come from a country where there is no healthcare, education, benefits, proper housing/services or decent food it's not hard to see why the UK is an attraction. The absence of endemic disease and chaos further adds to the attraction as does the fact that people are not routinely stopped, questioned and required to provide ID in the UK which is not necessarily the case elsewhere in Europe. These people are not stupid - they're following in others' footsteps and are well aware of the UK's problems deporting individuals. They believe that if they can get here they're unlikely ever to be removed and the figures would back that up too. They know that it can take years to process asylum applications and exhaust the appeals process and if they can start to build relationships and even families they know this will make it even less likely that they'll ever be asked to leave. Having children will in turn open the door to more benefits, better housing/services etc.

I can totally understand why people would want to come here and would even risk their lives to do so. It's a tragic situation.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Osem

Although many of us might take some of these things for granted, if you come from a country where there is no healthcare, education, benefits, proper housing/services or decent food it's not hard to see why the UK is an attraction. The absence of endemic disease and chaos further adds to the attraction as does the fact that people are not routinely stopped, questioned and required to provide ID in the UK which is not necessarily the case elsewhere in Europe. These people are not stupid - they're following in others' footsteps and are well aware of the UK's problems deporting individuals. They believe that if they can get here they're unlikely ever to be removed and the figures would back that up too. They know that it can take years to process asylum applications and exhaust the appeals process and if they can start to build relationships and even families they know this will make it even less likely that they'll ever be asked to leave. Having children will in turn open the door to more benefits, better housing/services etc.

I can totally understand why people would want to come here and would even risk their lives to do so. It's a tragic situation.

We should change our name to the United Free Bank Of England

[mrmistoffelees]

Perhaps we need to view borders as an antiquity? They were formed, defined and fought for hundred of years ago. The world as we know it is completely different to then. We're not just a group of countries anymore we're a global community constantly connected.

Oh god, I sound like a hippy !!!

[Osem]

We don't remove borders for the same reason that we don't let all and sundry move onto our land or into our homes, just because they want to. Anyone who feels differently and wishes to open up their personal borders and bank accounts is currently at liberty to do so and thereby do their bit for the homeless, desperate etc. Not only that, they can send every spare penny they have to the world's starving and needy if they so wish and thereby feel better about having so much when others have so little. How many people actually do any of that?

In an age where terrorism, people trafficking, drug crime etc. has probably never been worse, I'd have thought we need more stringent border controls not fewer. We also need to decide whether we're going to try to intervene and help in other countries or we just raise the drawbridge and let them get on with it. The latter isn't really an option so I think we can all look forward to more money and resources being allocated to trying to stem the flow of people want to leave their own countries for one reason or another.