Relationships and religion

Originally Posted by towny

All religion ultimately claims to have the exclusively 'right' answer. That's offensive to modern Western ears because it's now considered bad form to tell someone else their belief (especially religious) is wrong, but you can't really avoid it.

I don't consider it "offensive", I just consider it logically contradictory!

[Tiptoes]

Originally Posted by towny

Really, if I thought your question was in any way sincere I'd take the trouble to answer you. As it is, I'd far rather go and have my tea.

Glad to see your taking it in the light it was meant,

Hope you enjoy your tea and the "his holiness" doesnt speak whilst your chewing on any fish bones

I think some people who are Christian canââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t really understand why other people donââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t accept god & donââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t believe he exists. They see god as such a big influence on their lives and are unable to see that some people who do not believe live just as good lives and sometimes even better.

[Tiptoes]

Originally Posted by msec

I disagree - I consider it entirely possible to hold an exclusive religious view while giving respect to other people's beliefs. Respect for a belief doesn't require holding that belief, simply a determination not to belittle the person holding the belief solely on the grounds that he/she holds it.

I think the crux of the question hangs on what you mean by 'respect' with regard to other people's religious beliefs. I suspect that the respect religious people ask for is the recognition that the beliefs they hold, they hold genuinely and sincerely, and that when their beliefs are questioned, it is done without ridicule and contempt, but in a spirit of seeking truth.

/msec

What is the total and undisputed truth to one person is an inconceivable lie to another...

You cannot have your cake and eat it...

I view respect as something that is earned..............

Like when you listen to a politician talking about how good it would be
for us to sign up to the EU consitution how can you respect the belief when you in yourself beleive it is promoted or constructed on something you beleive to be incorrect at best, or a lie at worst?

right that's it.I'm unsubscribing before I get very rude about the Christian bashers.I shall make doubly sure also that I never subscribe to another one as they all end up with the,the,the....well I'm not sure what they are but the whatevers versus the committed believers in religion.

Incog.

[Paul K]

Originally Posted by Tiptoes

What is the total and undisputed truth to one person is an inconceivable lie to another...

You cannot have your cake and eat it...

I view respect as something that is earned..............

Like when you listen to a politician talking about how good it would be
for us to sign up to the EU consitution how can you respect the belief when you in yourself beleive it is promoted or constructed on something you beleive to be incorrect at best, or a lie at worst?

I'm sorry but everyone has the right to a viewpoint and/ or belief. I hold no religion as my own but that does not mean that the viewpoint of a Christian/ Jew/ Muslim etc is no less valid to me

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Tiptoes

So you spoke to G-d? or did he write to you?

Perhaps his holiness has learned how to use email and t'internet.

Do you think he shall speak to me if I ask nicely enough?

Maybe he can come here and speak for himself.. rather than have his underlings do his work for him.......

So why do you feel the need to belittle the beliefs of people who have a faith that you don't share? IMO it is this very attitude which causes so-called 'religious wars'.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by dieselking

I think some people who are Christian canââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t really understand why other people donââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t accept god & donââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t believe he exists. They see god as such a big influence on their lives and are unable to see that some people who do not believe live just as good lives and sometimes even better.

I know exactly what you mean (which is why I like talking on here with Russ and Towny etc as they aren't like this, to me anyway).
The JW's I knew expected me to join them, even though I told them time and time again I wasn't interested and it wasn't for me.
When they got the message tho, they turned very nasty, which hurt as I considered them friends and had been totally open and honest with them from the start.

[Bex]

Originally Posted by dieselking

I think some people who are Christian can’t really understand why other people don’t accept god & don’t believe he exists. They see god as such a big influence on their lives and are unable to see that some people who do not believe live just as good lives and sometimes even better.

i was a non-believer longer than i have been a believer, so i can understand the proposition of not believing in God or doubting his existence......but yes God has had a huge impact on my life, and when i have felt strong in faith i and others have noticed ahuge change in me..... i have a lot of non-christian friends, and have spoken about my faith with them......but i have never pushed my beliefs onto them because i don't feel it is right.... i have laid out my beliefs to them and they have generally come and asked me questions

Originally Posted by Tiptoes

What is the total and undisputed truth to one person is an inconceivable lie to another...

You cannot have your cake and eat it...

I view respect as something that is earned..............

Like when you listen to a politician talking about how good it would be
for us to sign up to the EU consitution how can you respect the belief when you in yourself beleive it is promoted or constructed on something you beleive to be incorrect at best, or a lie at worst?

yes respect has to be 'earned'

just think though - a person you don't respect has a belief that you do - and - a person you do respect has a belief that you don't - do both beliefs receive the same consideration? - I am of the opinion that 'belief' , 'faith' , whatever, is too personal an issue to attempt to deny as 'truth' or 'lies'.

[Bifta]

People believe in black holes, yet they've never seen one, however, an expert in the field of quantum mechanics say's they exist so I guess they must!

[msec]

Originally Posted by Graham

I don't consider it "offensive", I just consider it logically contradictory!

Mutually exclusive claims by definition logically contradict one another. However, please remember that this does not mean that all of them are false - just that *at most* one of them can be true.

/msec

[Salu]

Originally Posted by homealone

yes respect has to be 'earned'

just think though - a person you don't respect has a belief that you do - and - a person you do respect has a belief that you don't - do both beliefs receive the same consideration? - I am of the opinion that 'belief' , 'faith' , whatever, is too personal an issue to attempt to deny as 'truth' or 'lies'.

I don't think that your 'respect has to be earned' statement is complete.

I think you can also proactively respect someone. In other words have an attitude of respect of which a byproduct of your attitude leads to true respect.

Matthew 10:14 = Tiptoes , I feel.

This not disrespectful, by the way. Look it up.

[Tiptoes]

Originally Posted by homealone

yes respect has to be 'earned'

just think though - a person you don't respect has a belief that you do - and - a person you do respect has a belief that you don't - do both beliefs receive the same consideration? - I am of the opinion that 'belief' , 'faith' , whatever, is too personal an issue to attempt to deny as 'truth' or 'lies'.

Bifta... good point above however, Someone who Beleived in black holes should be able to prove they exist by scientific means... IT is that I respect.....

Maybe I need to make myself a little clearer


homealone and slalue..........

Say there is a Vicar who has done much charitable deeds and served his parishoners well over the years blah blah....

I would respect what he has done and his attitude toward the wider community but If he then said "It was my religion to do those things " then I would tell him I thought it was poppycock.......

For me A person truly and genuinely does something because he or she wants to and beleives that doing that will do some good and not because a book or "g-d" tells them to.....

If they are doing it solely because of the "book, writings" or because they beleive that "G-d" told them so then they are truly deluding themselves.....

I do charitable things because I want to not because some book tell me its good to do it....

Ill repeat this is MY VIEW not what Ive read from a book or what someon tells me to read from a book its MINE ME MOI,... How I Feel..

I respect other people view to tell me im wrong but I expect the chance to respond....

If people are upset by my response then thats not my problem I am not going to change the way I feel or MY VIEW because someone is upset by it..........

Why should I......

And I never said I didnt beleive in a G-D I do. its just not the same as what most other people beleive..

In that I beleive there is something but I dont know what because I dont beleive I have found a truly valid explanation yet...

Thats all folks

Oh and I would just like to add that I dont believe your being disrespectful by challenging what someone says.

I may have been a bit obtuse with my phrasing and for that I apologise but I wont apologise for challenging....

[Tiptoes]

Originally Posted by msec

Mutually exclusive claims by definition logically contradict one another. However, please remember that this does not mean that all of them are false - just that *at most* one of them can be true.

/msec

Okay then, in that case

I would like somoene to come here and give me an example of proof..

Any example will do