14-05-2020, 19:34
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#226
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laeva recumbens anguis
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Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre
Personality is nearly everything if you want to take people with you. In all walks of life.
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Unfortunately for BJ, only initially - you need substance & delivery, as well as good PR, to continue in positions of authority; eventually, the facade of bonhomie is worn away by harsh reality.
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14-05-2020, 20:34
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#227
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cf.mega poster
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Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
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Originally Posted by 1andrew1
I think many people are attracted by his personality and not his political credo. Certainly, even Johnson has had difficulty in deciding what his views on Brexit leading to him writing two opposing opinion pieces on it and selecting the one he felt would maxximise his chances of becoming PM.
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The definition of Populism maybe? Supporting someone on a basis of promise and not principle is a dangerous journey.
I think Starmer is playing the long game and has set out his stall well. We will see what progress he makes over the years to come but as time goes by, Johnson will unravel. I read this quote a few days ago and it seems apt 
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Johnson is like a clown running through a minefield
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14-05-2020, 20:41
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#228
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The Dark Satanic Mills
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh
Unfortunately for BJ, only initially - you need substance & delivery, as well as good PR, to continue in positions of authority; eventually, the facade of bonhomie is worn away by harsh reality.
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Indeed, I still think BJ has good will and I’m sure there are many that think he’s doing well in a very difficult situation.
The next 6-12 months are key. If Boris can navigate the country through this, keep deaths down and get the economy restarted - he’ll be alright.
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14-05-2020, 20:48
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#229
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Woke and proud !
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Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre
Indeed, I still think BJ has good will and I’m sure there are many that think he’s doing well in a very difficult situation.
The next 6-12 months are key. If Boris can navigate the country through this, keep deaths down and get the economy restarted - he’ll be alright.
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Well he's failed on the first, and the economy is nose diving. ( Last thing he needs at the moment is something like Brexit). He won't last 5 years, if nothing else he'll get bored and move on to the next jolly caper.
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14-05-2020, 22:11
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#230
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cf.mega poster
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Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K
Well he's failed on the first, and the economy is nose diving. ( Last thing he needs at the moment is something like Brexit). He won't last 5 years, if nothing else he'll get bored and move on to the next jolly caper.
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Don't want to go too far off track, but an FT article I read suggested that internal right-wing Conservative Party criticism of Johnson's handling of the crisis will result in Johnson placating the right-wingers by going hard on Brexit. with the economic repercussions hidden by a CV-19 recession.
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14-05-2020, 22:13
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#231
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The Dark Satanic Mills
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Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
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Originally Posted by Mr K
Well he's failed on the first,
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How so?
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and the economy is nose diving.
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Yeah, that tends to happen when you remove the workforce.
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14-05-2020, 22:27
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#232
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Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre
How so?
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32,000 and rising, the most deaths in Europe. Hardly a success story.
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14-05-2020, 22:41
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#233
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The Dark Satanic Mills
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Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K
32,000 and rising, the most deaths in Europe. Hardly a success story.
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Based against what benchmark?
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14-05-2020, 22:56
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#234
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Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre
Based against what benchmark?
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The Govt were happy to compare themselves to other European countries in a chart in their daily briefings. Until they became top of it and the chart was suddenly dropped. A fact Sir Keir mentioned when he wiped the floor with Bozzo at PMQs again.
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14-05-2020, 23:23
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#235
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The Dark Satanic Mills
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Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K
The Govt were happy to compare themselves to other European countries in a chart in their daily briefings. Until they became top of it and the chart was suddenly dropped. A fact Sir Keir mentioned when he wiped the floor with Bozzo at PMQs again.
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I didn’t see that, the CMO from the outset said comparisons were not helpful. They did compare themselves and our numbers included care homes whereas others didn’t. So they weren’t scared of showing themselves poorly against others.
They still aren’t as not everyone are using the same metrics.
No one could possibly know what a “good “ outcome for the U.K. would or could have been.
It’s like asking before Dday “how many people do you expect to die on the beach in Normandy? “ and then being critical if the under or over estimate the figure.
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Last edited by Pierre; 14-05-2020 at 23:27.
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15-05-2020, 00:16
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#236
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laeva recumbens anguis
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Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
The U.K. didn’t include care homes in the deaths total until 29th April, whilst France, Belgium and Ireland reported their figures earlier.
The point is that U.K. Government were happy to report comparisons for a number of weeks, then decided not to.
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15-05-2020, 08:50
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#237
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The Dark Satanic Mills
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Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh
The U.K. didn’t include care homes in the deaths total until 29th April, whilst France, Belgium and Ireland reported their figures earlier.
The point is that U.K. Government were happy to report comparisons for a number of weeks, then decided not to.
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That’s as may be, but it doesn’t address the point of “what Number would Be a good outcome?”
Comparisons and how stats are recorded still differ from country to country.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/52311014
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15-05-2020, 09:18
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#238
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Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre
That’s as may be, but it doesn’t address the point of “what Number would Be a good outcome?”
Comparisons and how stats are recorded still differ from country to country.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/52311014 |
Sir Patrick Vallance, the government's chief scientific adviser, said 20,000 would be a good outcome , its quite clear that the final figure is sadly going to be well in excess of that.
According to the FT modelling its double that outcome at least.
https://www.ft.com/content/0ed8ea34-...a-7a29447de57b
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15-05-2020, 09:20
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#239
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Woke and proud !
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Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre
That’s as may be, but it doesn’t address the point of “what Number would Be a good outcome?”
Comparisons and how stats are recorded still differ from country to country.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/52311014 |
There isn't any 'good outcome' from this. However countries that acted quicker with a lockdown and stopped international travel have faired much better than us. The Govt. claimed a couple of month ago that care homes were 'low risk' (!). Our Govts. response has been appalling.
There used to be some talented people in the Tory party , people with experience of Govt and business. But they were got rid of, to make way for Boris and his talentless muppets who only were only interested in Brexit. They weren't interested in any other issue.
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15-05-2020, 09:23
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#240
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Still alive and fighting
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Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth
Whilst I broadly think that the Guvmin is handling the crisis adequately (now), I dislike all forms of spin, self congratulation and economy with the truth.
I've found in life that the earlier you admit your mistakes, the more you are respected and the sooner people get off your back.
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l agree one should admit their mistakes as that have a habit of rebounding on the person who made the mistake in the first place.
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