04-09-2021, 14:28
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#2311
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Sulking in the Corner
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: RG41
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Posts: 11,955
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees
My point about technical solutions is a lie ? When you yourself admit the required API is not yet available ? Never mind the surveillance/reimbursement systems which do not exist yet.
You need to get the complan dribbles wiped off your chin. You’re a mess
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You shouldn't stoop to that kind of insult. OB has it completely right and all the necessary systems will sooer or later be in place.
__________________
Seph.
My advice is at your risk.
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04-09-2021, 14:38
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#2312
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067
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Middlesbrough
Age: 48
Services: Many
Posts: 4,651
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth
You shouldn't stoop to that kind of insult. OB has it completely right and all the necessary systems will sooer or later be in place.
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No he doesn’t, he claims that they’re available now which they’re not.
That is a simple fact.
If you want to side with him and his delusions, have at it.
__________________
Nerves of steel, heart of gold, knob of butter......
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04-09-2021, 15:13
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#2313
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cf.mega pornstar
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,813
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY
Not sure what you are talking about. I have provided links and explanations. You just don’t want to hear them.
The fact that you have not absorbed the information I have given does not justify you not accepting it, but I guess that’s the way it is.
We will just have to let this play out.
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If I wanted other people's opinions I wouldn't bother talking to you, I asked you a simple question that you've refused to answer, why is that I wonder.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth
You shouldn't stoop to that kind of insult. OB has it completely right and all the necessary systems will sooer or later be in place.
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Yes sooner or later, maybe within our lifetimes, maybe not
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04-09-2021, 16:48
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#2314
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Dr Pepper Addict
Cable Forum Team
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Posts: 27,838
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Re: Britain outside the EU
I suggest a few people in here calm down.
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Baby, I was born this way.
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04-09-2021, 16:56
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#2315
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laeva recumbens anguis
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Jun 2006
Age: 67
Services: Premiere Collection
Posts: 42,174
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY
Not sure what you are talking about. I have provided links and explanations. You just don’t want to hear them.
The fact that you have not absorbed the information I have given does not justify you not accepting it, but I guess that’s the way it is.
We will just have to let this play out.
---------- Post added at 14:08 ---------- Previous post was at 13:56 ----------
The API is simply a software bridge that enables two systems to talk to each other. It is not a technological barrier.
Every time you check information on an app on your mobile, you are using an API.
None of these problems are beyond our existing competencies. You are portraying all this as if it were science fiction.
And incidentally, your escalating rudeness is childish and betrays your increasing desperation to prove to everyone that we are doomed to failure.
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An API can be as simple, complex, or extremely complex - it doesn’t just connect systems, it can also be required to extract data (which could be hundreds or thousands of data fields, often with interdependencies) from a system (or multiple systems), validate that data (is it in the format required for the other system(s)), convert if required to the format(s) required by the other systems (and vice-versa), and then make sure the data integrity across multiple systems is maintained. At the same time, you have to ensure that any changes in the multiple issuing/receiving systems is under strict Change Control, as a minor change to a file or data format could cause major issues. Then you have to design the error-handling for all times that data is incorrect (after all the Business Analysis required to understand interdependencies between all the data fields, finding what can still be processed if data validation raises errors) and the resolution paths to fix and resume the data Extraction, Translate, & Loads between all the different systems. Are all the systems capable of real-time integration, or do some have to be batch processes, and if so, what is the periodicity of the batch runs, and how do you ensure data integrity between the feeds to/from batch systems and those with real-time updates?
Now multiply that by all the different systems used in different countries.
Can I ask what your experience in Systems Design, Systems Integration, or Technical Architecture is, please, which gives you the knowledge, experience, and background to summarily dismissed the complexity and duration of the work involved?
__________________
There is always light.
If only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.
If my post is in bold and this colour, it's a Moderator Request.
Last edited by Hugh; 04-09-2021 at 17:54.
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04-09-2021, 18:44
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#2316
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067
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Middlesbrough
Age: 48
Services: Many
Posts: 4,651
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh
An API can be as simple, complex, or extremely complex - it doesn’t just connect systems, it can also be required to extract data (which could be hundreds or thousands of data fields, often with interdependencies) from a system (or multiple systems), validate that data (is it in the format required for the other system(s)), convert if required to the format(s) required by the other systems (and vice-versa), and then make sure the data integrity across multiple systems is maintained. At the same time, you have to ensure that any changes in the multiple issuing/receiving systems is under strict Change Control, as a minor change to a file or data format could cause major issues. Then you have to design the error-handling for all times that data is incorrect (after all the Business Analysis required to understand interdependencies between all the data fields, finding what can still be processed if data validation raises errors) and the resolution paths to fix and resume the data Extraction, Translate, & Loads between all the different systems. Are all the systems capable of real-time integration, or do some have to be batch processes, and if so, what is the periodicity of the batch runs, and how do you ensure data integrity between the feeds to/from batch systems and those with real-time updates?
Now multiply that by all the different systems used in different countries.
Can I ask what your experience in Systems Design, Systems Integration, or Technical Architecture is, please, which gives you the knowledge, experience, and background to summarily dismissed the complexity and duration of the work involved?
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__________________
Nerves of steel, heart of gold, knob of butter......
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04-09-2021, 18:46
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#2317
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Sulking in the Corner
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: RG41
Services: 1 Gbps; Hub 4 MM; ASUS RT-AX88U; Ultimate VOLT. BT Infinity2; Devolo 1200AV
Posts: 11,955
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh
An API can be as simple, complex, or extremely complex - it doesn’t just connect systems, it can also be required to extract data (which could be hundreds or thousands of data fields, often with interdependencies) from a system (or multiple systems), validate that data (is it in the format required for the other system(s)), convert if required to the format(s) required by the other systems (and vice-versa), and then make sure the data integrity across multiple systems is maintained. At the same time, you have to ensure that any changes in the multiple issuing/receiving systems is under strict Change Control, as a minor change to a file or data format could cause major issues. Then you have to design the error-handling for all times that data is incorrect (after all the Business Analysis required to understand interdependencies between all the data fields, finding what can still be processed if data validation raises errors) and the resolution paths to fix and resume the data Extraction, Translate, & Loads between all the different systems. Are all the systems capable of real-time integration, or do some have to be batch processes, and if so, what is the periodicity of the batch runs, and how do you ensure data integrity between the feeds to/from batch systems and those with real-time updates?
Now multiply that by all the different systems used in different countries.
Can I ask what your experience in Systems Design, Systems Integration, or Technical Architecture is, please, which gives you the knowledge, experience, and background to summarily dismissed the complexity and duration of the work involved?
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Isn't the NI/GB/EIRE system the one that urgently needs doing?
__________________
Seph.
My advice is at your risk.
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04-09-2021, 19:25
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#2318
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,096
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth
You shouldn't stoop to that kind of insult. OB has it completely right and all the necessary systems will sooer or later be in place.
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Well said.
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04-09-2021, 19:57
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#2319
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Rise above the players
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wokingham
Services: 2 V6 boxes with 360 software, Now, ITVX, Amazon, Netflix, Lionsgate+, Apple+, Disney+, Paramount +,
Posts: 14,616
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees
No he doesn’t, he claims that they’re available now which they’re not.
That is a simple fact.
If you want to side with him and his delusions, have at it.
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Listen, it’s just the implementation that takes time. The technology is there already.
And while we work out how to implement, the grace period can be extended. It’s not rocket science.
You are the one who is delusional. You don’t have the capacity to understand that problems can be resolved. You just throw up your hands and give up.
What I have been putting forward is the government’s own solution. No government would come up with a solution that is pure science fiction.
---------- Post added at 19:52 ---------- Previous post was at 19:50 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy
If I wanted other people's opinions I wouldn't bother talking to you, I asked you a simple question that you've refused to answer, why is that I wonder.
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I have answered your questions. You just don’t understand the answers. My solution to that - watch and learn. It will all come to pass.
---------- Post added at 19:55 ---------- Previous post was at 19:52 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh
An API can be as simple, complex, or extremely complex - it doesn’t just connect systems, it can also be required to extract data (which could be hundreds or thousands of data fields, often with interdependencies) from a system (or multiple systems), validate that data (is it in the format required for the other system(s)), convert if required to the format(s) required by the other systems (and vice-versa), and then make sure the data integrity across multiple systems is maintained. At the same time, you have to ensure that any changes in the multiple issuing/receiving systems is under strict Change Control, as a minor change to a file or data format could cause major issues. Then you have to design the error-handling for all times that data is incorrect (after all the Business Analysis required to understand interdependencies between all the data fields, finding what can still be processed if data validation raises errors) and the resolution paths to fix and resume the data Extraction, Translate, & Loads between all the different systems. Are all the systems capable of real-time integration, or do some have to be batch processes, and if so, what is the periodicity of the batch runs, and how do you ensure data integrity between the feeds to/from batch systems and those with real-time updates?
Now multiply that by all the different systems used in different countries.
Can I ask what your experience in Systems Design, Systems Integration, or Technical Architecture is, please, which gives you the knowledge, experience, and background to summarily dismissed the complexity and duration of the work involved?
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Hugh, don’t be ridiculous. I did not say it was easy, I said the technology was there, which it is.
---------- Post added at 19:57 ---------- Previous post was at 19:55 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees
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I don’t know what you’re clapping for. New Zealand has already implemented a technological solution. Hugh has not claimed, as you have, that the technology isn’t there. He merely said it would take time, which is not disputed. Your argument has come undone.
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Forumbox.co.uk
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04-09-2021, 22:24
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#2320
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laeva recumbens anguis
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Jun 2006
Age: 67
Services: Premiere Collection
Posts: 42,174
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Re: Britain outside the EU
You really don’t understand Systems Design & Development or Technical Architecture, do you?
Saying "the technology is there" makes it sound simple, which it isn’t - it took SpaceX 6 years to get their first successful launch (after multiple failures), and it’s first commercial launch took 12 years, but "the technology" already existed (it’s entire ethos is using COTS and existing testing technology to reduce cost and development time).
You stated
Quote:
The API is simply a software bridge that enables two systems to talk to each other. It is not a technological barrier.
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It’s not the technology that takes the time, it’s understanding and agreeing the requirements, designing the systems and interfaces, prototyping and testing those systems and interfaces, developing the full solution and interfaces, testing and implementing those systems and interfaces, regression testing the impact of any changes required to linked systems (a couple of loops of the last two steps when errors are found or changes required), and while all this is going on, requirements for system changes will being requested* as the world (political and economic) changes (new laws, standards, processes, etc.).
To give you a sense of timescales, the current Customs system (CHIEF) was suppose to have been retired in 2012 - in fact, it’s replacement, CDS, will be implemented at the end of March 2023; the "technology" is/was there, but it’s 11 years late.
And as for the NZ "technological solution", how does it deal with the cross-border foot and road traffic from Australia?
* and by requested, I mean demanded, usually by politicians
__________________
There is always light.
If only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.
If my post is in bold and this colour, it's a Moderator Request.
Last edited by Hugh; 04-09-2021 at 22:43.
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05-09-2021, 02:07
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#2321
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Rise above the players
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wokingham
Services: 2 V6 boxes with 360 software, Now, ITVX, Amazon, Netflix, Lionsgate+, Apple+, Disney+, Paramount +,
Posts: 14,616
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh
You really don’t understand Systems Design & Development or Technical Architecture, do you?
Saying "the technology is there" makes it sound simple, which it isn’t - it took SpaceX 6 years to get their first successful launch (after multiple failures), and it’s first commercial launch took 12 years, but "the technology" already existed (it’s entire ethos is using COTS and existing testing technology to reduce cost and development time).
You stated
It’s not the technology that takes the time, it’s understanding and agreeing the requirements, designing the systems and interfaces, prototyping and testing those systems and interfaces, developing the full solution and interfaces, testing and implementing those systems and interfaces, regression testing the impact of any changes required to linked systems (a couple of loops of the last two steps when errors are found or changes required), and while all this is going on, requirements for system changes will being requested* as the world (political and economic) changes (new laws, standards, processes, etc.).
To give you a sense of timescales, the current Customs system (CHIEF) was suppose to have been retired in 2012 - in fact, it’s replacement, CDS, will be implemented at the end of March 2023; the "technology" is/was there, but it’s 11 years late.
And as for the NZ "technological solution", how does it deal with the cross-border foot and road traffic from Australia?
*and by requested, I mean demanded, usually by politicians
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Don’t get carried away Hugh. All I said was that the technology was there.
Are you seriously disagreeing with this?
Are you seriously trying to compare this situation with launching a rocket?
I really think that some of you on this forum are overthinking this - big time!
__________________
Forumbox.co.uk
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05-09-2021, 04:12
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#2322
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cf.mega pornstar
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,813
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY
I have answered your questions. You just don’t understand the answers. My solution to that - watch and learn. It will all come to pass.
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Questions? I've only asked one and you haven't answered it at all, in fact you've got out of your way not to answer it because you can't, you make these proclamations based on nothing
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY
Don’t get carried away Hugh. All I said was that the technology was there.
Are you seriously disagreeing with this?
Are you seriously trying to compare this situation with launching a rocket?
I really think that some of you on this forum are overthinking this - big time!
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and others are under thinking it, big time!
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05-09-2021, 09:00
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#2323
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067
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Middlesbrough
Age: 48
Services: Many
Posts: 4,651
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY
Listen, it’s just the implementation that takes time. The technology is there already.
And while we work out how to implement, the grace period can be extended. It’s not rocket science.
You are the one who is delusional. You don’t have the capacity to understand that problems can be resolved. You just throw up your hands and give up.
What I have been putting forward is the government’s own solution. No government would come up with a solution that is pure science fiction.
---------- Post added at 19:52 ---------- Previous post was at 19:50 ----------
I have answered your questions. You just don’t understand the answers. My solution to that - watch and learn. It will all come to pass.
---------- Post added at 19:55 ---------- Previous post was at 19:52 ----------
Hugh, don’t be ridiculous. I did not say it was easy, I said the technology was there, which it is.
---------- Post added at 19:57 ---------- Previous post was at 19:55 ----------
I don’t know what you’re clapping for. New Zealand has already implemented a technological solution. Hugh has not claimed, as you have, that the technology isn’t there. He merely said it would take time, which is not disputed. Your argument has come undone.
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Oh Old Boy……..
Besides the original article which you selectively quoted from (you excluded the fact that reimbursement & surveillance technologies don’t exist yet… which is explicitly stated)
Have a read here pages 29-35
https://www.instituteforgovernment.o...toms_WEB_0.pdf
__________________
Nerves of steel, heart of gold, knob of butter......
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05-09-2021, 09:11
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#2324
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vox populi vox dei
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: the last resort
Services: every thing
Posts: 13,739
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh
You really don’t understand Systems Design & Development or Technical Architecture, do you?
Saying "the technology is there" makes it sound simple, which it isn’t - it took SpaceX 6 years to get their first successful launch (after multiple failures), and it’s first commercial launch took 12 years, but "the technology" already existed (it’s entire ethos is using COTS and existing testing technology to reduce cost and development time).
You stated
It’s not the technology that takes the time, it’s understanding and agreeing the requirements, designing the systems and interfaces, prototyping and testing those systems and interfaces, developing the full solution and interfaces, testing and implementing those systems and interfaces, regression testing the impact of any changes required to linked systems (a couple of loops of the last two steps when errors are found or changes required), and while all this is going on, requirements for system changes will being requested* as the world (political and economic) changes (new laws, standards, processes, etc.).
To give you a sense of timescales, the current Customs system (CHIEF) was suppose to have been retired in 2012 - in fact, it’s replacement, CDS, will be implemented at the end of March 2023; the "technology" is/was there, but it’s 11 years late.
And as for the NZ "technological solution", how does it deal with the cross-border foot and road traffic from Australia?
*and by requested, I mean demanded, usually by politicians
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How do you walk or drive across the Tasman sea?
__________________
To be or not to be, woke is the question Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer. The slings and arrows of outrageous wokedome, Or to take arms against a sea of wokies. And by opposing end them.
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05-09-2021, 09:30
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#2325
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laeva recumbens anguis
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Jun 2006
Age: 67
Services: Premiere Collection
Posts: 42,174
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Re: Britain outside the EU
That’s the point…
There aren’t any requirements for foot or road traffic exports/imports in the NZ-Australia systems, so using their "technology" as a comparison to posit there is a similar solution already in place is not congruent with actuality.
---------- Post added at 09:30 ---------- Previous post was at 09:25 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY
Don’t get carried away Hugh. All I said was that the technology was there.
Are you seriously disagreeing with this?
Are you seriously trying to compare this situation with launching a rocket?
I really think that some of you on this forum are overthinking this - big time!
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I’m not getting "carried away" - I’m using 40 years experience in implementing large scale Business Systems to point out the complexity of what is required, rather than your simplistic "the technology is there" mantra, based on who knows what? I pointed out that one aspect of the "technology" that you said is "already there" is in fact not "there", and is over a decade late, and won’t go live for nearly two years.
You said
Quote:
Your point about technical solutions not yet being available is another lie being put about by those who want to see us fail. Of course they are there, and New Zealand have already found such a solution for their exports, as my link showed.
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As stated above, you are comparing apples with orang-utans - You keep using "the technology is there" as your "get out of jail" card - the technology to provide a solution to the Eire/EU - NI/UK cross-border traffic and imports and exports isn’t there, and probably won’t be for 5-10 years.
__________________
There is always light.
If only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.
If my post is in bold and this colour, it's a Moderator Request.
Last edited by Hugh; 05-09-2021 at 09:38.
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