[Update] The UK votes to leave the EU

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

That does bother me. How can they be so breathtakingly oblivious?

Maybe the 'grand plan' is for our own politicians to plumb the depths of ineptitude, cronyism, duplicity etc. etc. to such an extent that for, a good number of people, anything from the EU seems like it couldn't possibly be worse than what we have...

---------- Post added at 10:29 ---------- Previous post was at 10:27 ----------

Meanwhile, the 'remainers' have suffered a major blow to their credibility which could prove disastrous:

Former Labour leader Ed Miliband is to issue a "call to arms", urging young people to register to vote in next month's EU referendum.

The absence of millions of young voters from the electoral register could lead to a victory for the Leave camp in the EU referendum, he is set to warn.

Mr Miliband will say their "optimistic generation" can keep Britain in the EU

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politic...endum-36403826

Originally Posted by Big Brian

Correct me if I'm wrong here but should that not read:

Should the United Kingdom remain in a reformed European Union or leave the European Union? Or have they decided to drop the Reformed? If so then it appears they don't want reform and are happy with the status quo. The wording is interesting because that would make me vote leave because there is no mention of reform.

Originally the question as proposed by the Government was
"Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union?"


The Electoral Commission recommended a change to
"Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?"

This was accepted by the Government .

interesting to note how leading the first draught by the government was.

On a more disturbing note the Electoral Commission found that

Our research and consultation found that, although the question used
brief and straightforward language, the phrase ‘be a member of the European
Union’ to describe the referendum choice was not sufficiently clear to ensure
a full understanding of the referendum as a whole. This was because some
participants in our research did not know that the United Kingdom is currently
a member of the European Union while others who did know thought the
question suggested the United Kingdom was not a member

http://www.electoralcommission.org.u...ent-report.pdf

How the hell does a British citizen get to voting age without knowing we are already part of the EU

People that just aren't engaged in politics at all, I've seen people who don't know who the PM is or what Labour and the Conservatives are. Not surprised to be honest.

[heero_yuy]

Some people are so divorced from reality that unless it's on twitter or facebook they don't know about it.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

Some people are so divorced from reality that unless it's on twitter or facebook they don't know about it.

We like to watch the news and current affairs programmes as at least they keep you in touch with most things on a regular basis.

Originally Posted by Damien

People that just aren't engaged in politics at all, I've seen people who don't know who the PM is or what Labour and the Conservatives are. Not surprised to be honest.

A person shouldn't have to be engaged in politics at all simply a basic education should do the trick

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Damien

People that just aren't engaged in politics at all, I've seen people who don't know who the PM is or what Labour and the Conservatives are. Not surprised to be honest.

There's a staggering amount of that around and its not just ignorance of politics either. I listen to some of my son's mates and you have to wonder just where they've been and why so little of what's going on around them has sunk in, even if purely subliminally. Maybe it's down, in part, to a lifestyle which presents so many diversions of one sort or another. It's not just here either, the wife's family back home are seeing the same with their kids and younger people in general there. They spend vast amounts of time living virtual lives that they experience and are influenced far less by the reality.

---------- Post added at 12:24 ---------- Previous post was at 12:14 ----------

Originally Posted by martyh

A person shouldn't have to be engaged in politics at all simply a basic education should do the trick

It should but clearly doesn't. Think back to when we were at school and the amount of research/reading you had to do to find information about a homework topic - scouring text books, going to the reference library etc. You couldn't just ask Mr Google, Ms Cortana or someone for the answers and accordingly we were picking up information even though we didn't know it and it wasn't necessarily directly relevant. Not only that but we were used to having to make that effort. Now, it's just so easy to find information with no effort that people have tended to become lazier when it comes to learning and accept the first answer the search result lists. What reason is there to learn something when you feel you can find out at the touch of a button if/when you need it? Being inquisitive isn't really necessary anymore.

Anyway, we're digressing, although ignorance certainly isn't new or limited to the younger generation, maybe the reasons for it have changed over time.

---------- Post added at 12:27 ---------- Previous post was at 12:24 ----------

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

Some people are so divorced from reality that unless it's on twitter or facebook they don't know about it.

and tend to believe it regardless of whether it's true.

So much access to information yet so much ignorance...

Originally Posted by Osem

There's a staggering amount of that around and its not just ignorance of politics either. I listen to some of my son's mates and you have to wonder just where they've been and why so little of what's going on around them has sunk in, even if purely subliminally. Maybe it's down, in part, to a lifestyle which presents so many diversions of one sort or another. It's not just here either, the wife's family back home are seeing the same with their kids and younger people in general there. They spend vast amounts of time living virtual lives that they experience and are influenced far less by the reality.

Some people just don't care. It's what people engaged with politics get wrong when they point at the number of non-voters and assume that they can be made to come out and vote. It's not disillusionment, it's that they simply don't care.

I think it's because it's hard for them to see what difference it makes to their day-to-day lives. For a start recent years have seen little difference between the two major parties and with he economy along with globalisation having such a driving force on policy it's hard for any one government to make massive, wholesale, changes. So the impact of different governments are felt by people on the edges of society, the very poor or the very rich, who feel the tinkering changes that these governments do make.

The rest of it is just a slightly different approach to some parts of their life which would probably happen either way. The things that do matter to them go on as do their lives and the rest of it? So what.

I think it may be changing though. We're seeing less moderate people rising to the top of politics and they're more populist or ideologically than the likes of Blair, Cameron and Obama. Issues such as the economic crash, stagnating wages, a spareness of homes and the continuing decline of manual work in the Western world means people's lives are now being impacted.

[Big Brian]

Originally Posted by martyh

Originally the question as proposed by the Government was
"Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union?"


The Electoral Commission recommended a change to
"Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?"

This was accepted by the Government .

interesting to note how leading the first draught by the government was.

On a more disturbing note the Electoral Commission found that



http://www.electoralcommission.org.u...ent-report.pdf

How the hell does a British citizen get to voting age without knowing we are already part of the EU

Apologies I misread that but yes be a member would confuse some but to say they didn't know we were already a member is stupidity at its height.

Christ I know they are coming out of school thicker these days but they surely can't be that stupid?

[MalteseFalcon]

Photo of the ballot paper. If this breaches rules, please remove.

[Big Brian]

Originally Posted by Damien

People that just aren't engaged in politics at all, I've seen people who don't know who the PM is or what Labour and the Conservatives are. Not surprised to be honest.

I am. They should be taught that at school, we were.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Damien

Some people just don't care. It's what people engaged with politics get wrong when they point at the number of non-voters and assume that they can be made to come out and vote. It's not disillusionment, it's that they simply don't care.

I think it's because it's hard for them to see what difference it makes to their day-to-day lives. For a start recent years have seen little difference between the two major parties and with he economy along with globalisation having such a driving force on policy it's hard for any one government to make massive, wholesale, changes. So the impact of different governments are felt by people on the edges of society, the very poor or the very rich, who feel the tinkering changes that these governments do make.

The rest of it is just a slightly different approach to some parts of their life which would probably happen either way. The things that do matter to them go on as do their lives and the rest of it? So what.

I think it may be changing though. We're seeing less moderate people rising to the top of politics and they're more populist or ideologically than the likes of Blair, Cameron and Obama. Issues such as the economic crash, stagnating wages, a spareness of homes and the continuing decline of manual work in the Western world means people's lives are now being impacted.

Yes, don't care, don't think, ignorant, disillusioned or whatever, our glorious leaders must quite like having an electorate, a large proportion of which don't vote for one reason or another. It's much harder being held accountable be people who do care and will make waves.

[Big Brian]

Originally Posted by Osem

Yes, don't care, don't think, ignorant, disillusioned or whatever, our glorious leaders must quite like having an electorate, a large proportion of which don't vote for one reason or another. It's much harder being held accountable be people who do care and will make waves.

Well Ed Miliband is back urging youngsters to register to vote. He said it would stop a Brexit vote as statistics show they are more likely to vote remain.

Without them there is likely to be a Brexit vote

[heero_yuy]

Ed who?

Wasn't he something to do with failed Liebour?

[dave6x]

Originally Posted by Big Brian

Well Ed Miliband is back urging youngsters to register to vote. He said it would stop a Brexit vote as statistics show they are more likely to vote remain.

Without them there is likely to be a Brexit vote

Surprisingly many people I have spoken to covering a wide age range are all saying the same, that they are sick to death of scaremongering extreme forecasts based on dodgy statistics coming from the Remain campaign and thus are likely to vote leave because they would rather we were in charge of our own destiny as a nation than trust those who are telling us lies which even the all party Treasury Select Committee are questioning!