Should Corporal Punishment Be Brought Back ?

[downquark1]

Originally Posted by Jerrek

The ultimate negative reinforcement is very effective. That person never commits another crime again.

Yes it is very effective in that reguard. But you loose a functioning member of society.

Logical arguments all depend on your aim. Your aim is to stop reoffending. Other people aim to re-abilitate.

Some people repair things when they break - others throw it and buy a new one.

[ian@huth]

Originally Posted by Flubflow

I said crime rate (i.e. %) not total number of crimes.
Another thing that helps is that fact that prisons are not as bad as they used to be so that there is a more of a chance that offenders can improve themselves and lessen the chance of them re-offending (the positive way).

Go on then, give us the crime rate percentages for both the UK and USA and how these have altered in the past 10 to 15 years.

Do you honestly think that because prisons are not as bad as they used to be makes prisoners less likely to re-offend? I would have thought that common sense dictates the opposite is true.

[Stuartbe]

Hey - come on guys... This is suposed to be about the way we bring children up in this country and how to mould them into good people.......

Not being rude to our m8's over the water but I dont live in Canada or the USA so there prison system and crime rates dont bother me........

This is going fast....

[paulyoung666]

Originally Posted by stuartbe

Hey - come on guys... This is suposed to be about the way we bring children up in this country and how to mould them into good people.......

Not being rude to our m8's over the water but I dont live in Canada or the USA so there prison system and crime rates dont bother me........

This is going fast....

got to agree with that

[ian@huth]

Originally Posted by stuartbe

Hey - come on guys... This is suposed to be about the way we bring children up in this country and how to mould them into good people.......

Not being rude to our m8's over the water but I dont live in Canada or the USA so there prison system and crime rates dont bother me........

This is going fast....

I don't think that this is going off topic at all Stuart. If we are looking at an issue such as this we have to look at what is going on in countries around the world, how other countries deal with discipline and crime and how effective their way is. We are not an island that behaves in such a unique way that means other countries experiences are not valid here.

[paulyoung666]

Originally Posted by ianathuth

I don't think that this is going off topic at all Stuart. If we are looking at an issue such as this we have to look at what is going on in countries around the world, how other countries deal with discipline and crime and how effective their way is. We are not an island that behaves in such a unique way that means other countries experiences are not valid here.

but surely we should be looking at how our circumstances affect our country , rather than how another countries circumstances might affect our country , or have i missed your point

[Stuartbe]

Originally Posted by ianathuth

I don't think that this is going off topic at all Stuart. If we are looking at an issue such as this we have to look at what is going on in countries around the world, how other countries deal with discipline and crime and how effective their way is. We are not an island that behaves in such a unique way that means other countries experiences are not valid here.

IMO - Criminals are only criminals if they have not been raised correctly. I think that the time to mould and make a someone a good memeber of society is when they are growing up.... Yes we need prisons and punishment's for adults. but I am talking about how we raise our children and if a stricter school system and home life would improve the way that children behave....

Whats that got to do with US crime rates and prisons ?

[Flubflow]

Originally Posted by ianathuth

Go on then, give us the crime rate percentages for both the UK and USA and how these have altered in the past 10 to 15 years.

Do you honestly think that because prisons are not as bad as they used to be makes prisoners less likely to re-offend? I would have thought that common sense dictates the opposite is true.

I understand what you are saying but there is a lot more to that subject and we are getting drawn too far beyond the extremities of the original topic of corporal punishment in schools and at home.

[ian@huth]

Originally Posted by stuartbe

IMO - Criminals are only criminals if they have not been raised correctly. I think that the time to mould and make a someone a good memeber of society is when they are growing up.... Yes we need prisons and punishment's for adults. but I am talking about how we raise our children and if a stricter school system and home life would improve the way that children behave....

Whats that got to do with US crime rates and prisons ?

There have been many children that have been raised correctly and been good members of society that have subsequently turned to crime because of economic reasons or through simple greed. You may have been brought up properly but if you suddenly fall on a bad series of events such as losing your job, your home and your family and wonder where the next meal is coming from then you may be tempted to turn to crime.

Don't forget that criminals are also parents and a judicial system that doesn't punish criminals effectively leads to these people weighing up the odds of can I get away with this criminal activity and if not what will my punishment be? Their children may believe that what is good for their parents is good enough for me. Children at a very early age know what they can get away with and what the punishment is likely to be if caught.

As I have said earlier, we have to look further afield than what is happening here in the UK and learn from what is going on in the rest of the world.

[Jerrek]

Originally Posted by downquark1

Yes it is very effective in that reguard. But you loose a functioning member of society.

And that is supposed to .... what? Who cares if we loose a criminal? I certainly wouldn't miss a child molestor in my neighborhood.

Logical arguments all depend on your aim. Your aim is to stop reoffending. Other people aim to re-abilitate.

That is true.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Flubflow

My original post was a very a small one so there was no need for you to snip portions out in the quote. If you think your argument is that strong then there should be no need for you to falsely lessen the impact of mine in this way.

Yes children do learn that a slap means that they have done something wrong. Wouldn't you rather not have to slap them at all and get an even better result (especially the child not crying his/her eyes out and hating you even just for a short time)? Also, with positive discipline there is a certain amount of self-learning and general improvement in attitude so that you lessen the chance of other offences occuring for which you would still have to smack for. Specific reactionary physical punishment is just a series of smacks for specific brands of naughtiness throughout each stage of development until eventually they are too old to be smacked.

Doing things more positively does not mean talking to the child in the fashion of an old hippy cliche after the event. It involves getting more involved with them using all of the time you can spare. If you really wanted to you could read about it, learn and try it out.

Anyway, I am one of the old f*ckers around here. Traditionally I am supposed to be the type that says, "bring back the birch" and all that stuff. If even I can realise that there is a more rewarding way then maybe you should give it some genuine thought.

I'm sorry, I didn't realise snipping bits of your post would lessen their effect, after all, people would have read your post in its entirety before they read my response to it.
If it upsets you that much, perhaps you could respond to some of my earlier replies without snipping parts, such as if the theory you have put forward that using a quick slap as punishment breeds violence, how come society used to be a much less violent place, especially considering children were brought up witnessing/experiencing the cane being used in schools?
As I have said several times, trained professionals who know more about the techniques you've discussed have tried and failed with their own children.

Originally Posted by Jerrek

You do not see the military handing out candy when the soldiers are obedient. No. They get punished. Hard. Thats why it works in the military.

So they get punished when they are obedient and punished when they are not.

That sounds back a*sed to me.

Not how it's done in the British army,navy and RAF.WE want bright UNCONFUSED recruits.

Originally Posted by ianathuth

One of the biggest causes of lack of discipline in children is the parents having differing views on the subject. I have seen many cases of a child being punished either verbally or physically by one parent and the other parent consoling the child and giving them a cuddle. This leads to confusion in the child about what is right and what is wrong and the child playing off one parent against the other which can eventually lead to marital problems. A child will respond and learn more from parents who have talked over the subject of discipline and formulated rules on the subject.

Consistancy is all.The same goes for ALL forms of punishment.Children are very quick to jump on inconsistancies and claim that "it's not fair".

[Jerrek]

Originally Posted by Incognitas

So they get punished when they are obedient and punished when they are not.

How do you figure?


EDIT: OK sorry. Bad translation on my part. I meant to say that they do not get rewarded for good behavior, instead, they get punished for bad behavior.

Originally Posted by Jerrek

How do you figure?


EDIT: OK sorry. Bad translation on my part. I meant to say that they do not get rewarded for good behavior, instead, they get punished for bad behavior.

Hell yeah, I always say if a kid in the street can give you a mouth full they are old enough to pick their teeth up too.

OK thats extreme I know but I do and I will continue to give kids a clip if they go too far, some of them at 14 and 15 are far too big to be treated as kids and I'm sorry but if they set about me or anyone I know they are going to get hurt.