Election 2019 - Week 3

Originally Posted by jfman

Austerity hasn’t reduced it though, has it?

There is absolutely no plan. The state has no assets, no growth and people don’t want to pay tax. It simply doesn’t work. The older generations just hope this pozni scheme holds up til they die.

40 years of failure. Barely ran a surplus in that time with debt through the roof.

Austerity has reduced the need to keep dipping in it under the Tories, they didn't dip in it as much as the prior Labour Government did for 13 years, so don't try that one with me.

In other news I love to see the SNP get an absolute pasting when they fail to meet their targets, they are no better, Mr Jfman!

https://twitter.com/jackgIendinning/...56353161043969

Andrew Neil: "you've called for legislation to protect the NHS from Donald Trump but maybe we need to legislate to protect the NHS from Nicola Sturgeon."

Utterly priceless.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Mick

Austerity has reduced the need to keep dipping in it under the Tories, they didn't dip in it as much as the prior Labour Government did for 13 years, so don't try that one with me.

In other news I love to see the SNP get an absolute pasting when they fail to meet their targets, they are no better, Mr Jfman!

https://twitter.com/jackgIendinning/...56353161043969

Andrew Neil: "you've called for legislation to protect the NHS from Donald Trump but maybe we need to legislate to protect the NHS from Nicola Sturgeon."

Utterly priceless.

“In other news”. Another absolute deflection because you are devoid of ideas. At least you didn’t try to hide it.

No plans to pay back the debt, no plans at all. It’s an ideologically driven attack on the poor to keep tax low for the rich and multinational companies. It’s disingenuous to claim otherwise. Or outright lies.

Originally Posted by jfman

“In other news”. Another absolute deflection because you are devoid of ideas. At least you didn’t try to hide it.

No plans to pay back the debt, no plans at all. It’s an ideologically driven attack on the poor to keep tax low for the rich and multinational companies. It’s disingenuous to claim otherwise. Or outright lies.

Or to be realistically fair, it is none of those things and you're the one, who is totally lying as usual!

I see you've completely skipped on the failings of the SNP pointed out by Andrew Neil! Why is that?

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Mick

Or to be realistically fair, it is none of those things and you're the one, who is totally lying as usual!

I see you've completely skipped on the failings of the SNP pointed out by Andrew Neil! Why is that?

Because you haven't addressed what the plan is to pay back 2 trillion pounds of national debt? That's an awful lot of austerity.

I don't remember the big push to balance the books in the "good times" by taxing people a little more. Nope.

A big pozni scheme as I said. Although the windfalls have run out.

The failings or otherwise or the SNP are you simply derailng the conversation - a skill quite a few on here have when the obvious failings of Conservative/New Labour neo-liberal free market capitalism are exposed.

40 years. 2 trillion of debt. No assets. No growth. Ends only one way. Might not be tomorrow, but it crashes eventually.

Originally Posted by jfman

The failings or otherwise or the SNP are you simply derailng the conversation - a skill quite a few on here have when the obvious failings of Conservative/New Labour neo-liberal free market capitalism are exposed.

I wasn't aware this was the jfman show?

Here's the thing, we're not having a conversation, you started bleating on about Austerity with Nomadking, I simply joined in and told you, you're wrong on many fronts, mainly about the whinging about austerity and for the record, no I am not derailing the conversation, this topic is not just about one party, so wind your neck in. If I want to bring up the SNP's failings I can do, I don't need your consent and you would do well to remember this.

[Arthurgray50@blu]

Please look at it this way.
Again today, Joker Boris has come out again with the rubbish of putting more money into nursing.
Doesn't he realise it will take FIVE years to train a nurse. And there is over 30.000 vacancies for nursing staff.
If the money was good. There wouldn't be any vacancies.

He also states that they will employ 20.000 more police officers - Is this across the UK.
Doesn't he realise that officers are leaving EACH MONTH through stress, and the workload they get each day - and remember, l work in law enforcement and know the pressure that officers are on a daily routine.

Boris, is trying to con the public. And find out how many times , on daily basis, he will talk about Brexit.

Boris is conning the public in the hope of voting Tory, then when he gets in. He will start making cuts again. Watch the space

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Mick

I wasn't aware this was the jfman show?

Here's the thing, we're not having a conversation, you started bleating on about Austerity with Nomadking, I simply joined in and told you, you're wrong on many fronts, mainly about the whinging about austerity and for the record, no I am not derailing the conversation, this topic is not just about one party, so wind your neck in. If I want to bring up the SNP's failings I can do, I don't need your consent and you would do well to remember this.

I simply pointed out that you have deflected from my point. Which is a statement of fact. Hence I chose not to respond to your point.

It's a discussion forum. I thought the point was to have conversations not read moderated right wing propaganda.

I don't think you've evidenced that I'm wrong at all, simply obediently observed your own flawed ideology. Which is fine, but to call it proving me wrong is somewhat a leap.

---------- Post added at 22:09 ---------- Previous post was at 22:08 ----------

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

Please look at it this way.
Again today, Joker Boris has come out again with the rubbish of putting more money into nursing.
Doesn't he realise it will take FIVE years to train a nurse. And there is over 30.000 vacancies for nursing staff.
If the money was good. There wouldn't be any vacancies.

He also states that they will employ 20.000 more police officers - Is this across the UK.
Doesn't he realise that officers are leaving EACH MONTH through stress, and the workload they get each day - and remember, l work in law enforcement and know the pressure that officers are on a daily routine.

Boris, is trying to con the public. And find out how many times , on daily basis, he will talk about Brexit.

Boris is conning the public in the hope of voting Tory, then when he gets in. He will start making cuts again. Watch the space

Nobody holds the Tories to account. In five years time we will just get more misinformation as to why the alternative is worse.

Originally Posted by jfman

I simply pointed out that you have deflected from my point. Which is a statement of fact. Hence I chose not to respond to your point.

I have nothing to deflect from so no it is not a statement of fact at all. I simply moved on because I am bored of your whinging of austerity all the time, that I have already said, multiple times, was needed.

I was actually pointing out the hypocrisy from yourself of you whinging about Tory failings in your eyes yet you have nothing to say at all on SNP failings.

One word for that, pathetic!

Originally Posted by jfman

It's a discussion forum. I thought the point was to have conversations not read moderated right wing propaganda.

I just told you we were not having a conversation, you was whinging and I butted in to say why your whinging was unwarranted and so I moved on.

As I said, this not your topic.

[muppetman11]

Originally Posted by Dave42

tory propaganda just like the 50,000 extra nurses that piers and susanna debunked this morning

It must be to work in the 40 new hospitals they are building.

Wow and more wow.

BREAKING:
Jeremy Corbyn and Labour have been rocked by an explosive attack over antisemitism by the UK’s most senior Jewish leader, the Chief Rabbi. In a coruscating article in The Times, Ephraim Mirvis says the Labour leader’s claims to be tackling antisemitism in is party are a "mendacious fiction".

He writes: "A new poison - sanctioned from the very top - has taken root in the Labour Party.”

https://news.sky.com/story/chief-rab...ponse-11870412

A damning indictment of the Racist party that is now Labour.

[jfman]

A sign of sheer panic among the establishment as the polls get tighter. Not unexpected, and fairly transparent.

---------- Post added at 08:28 ---------- Previous post was at 08:27 ----------

Originally Posted by Mick

As I said, this not your topic.

I'm quite sure it isn't yours either.

With no plans to pay off the 2 trillion of debt, and no answer of how austerity solves it, the older generations are admitting what we already know.

They've mortgaged off future revenue from public utilities for a one off windfall, and squandered state assets balancing the books with huge borrowing and leaving it all for future generations to pay back.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Mick

Wow and more wow.

BREAKING:
Jeremy Corbyn and Labour have been rocked by an explosive attack over antisemitism by the UK’s most senior Jewish leader, the Chief Rabbi. In a coruscating article in The Times, Ephraim Mirvis says the Labour leader’s claims to be tackling antisemitism in is party are a "mendacious fiction".

He writes: "A new poison - sanctioned from the very top - has taken root in the Labour Party.”

https://news.sky.com/story/chief-rab...ponse-11870412

A damning indictment of the Racist party that is now Labour.

And the Tory party and their deep rooted Islamophobia issues?

[jfman]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

And the Tory party and their deep rooted Islamophobia issues?

Watch out, we can't have that kind of objectivity in our election thread.

[jonbxx]

But antisemitism does not justify islamophobia or vice versa. The whole election campaign seems to have sunk to the levels of 'I know you are but what am I'. The Brexit and to a lesser extent Scottish referendum set a new playing field of what is acceptable in political campaigning where any old nonsense can be rolled out and, as long as the message is impactful, honesty is secondary.

It seems like supporting a political party is like supporting a football team these days. If you don't support a Conservative policy, you're a marxist and if you don't support a Labour policy, you're Hitler (good bit of Godwins law there)

Politicians on the whole aren't stupid but I am getting more and more convinced that they think we, the public, are and that's pretty insulting!

I will definitely vote as I think that taking part in the democratic process is part of what being part of society is but I am struggling to decide who to vote for. We have 5 candidates and I am working more on who I wouldn't vote for than who I would. I have narrowed it down to 4 so far!

I think I need to read some manifestos...

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by jfman

A sign of sheer panic among the establishment as the polls get tighter. Not unexpected, and fairly transparent.

---------- Post added at 08:28 ---------- Previous post was at 08:27 ----------



I'm quite sure it isn't yours either.

With no plans to pay off the 2 trillion of debt, and no answer of how austerity solves it, the older generations are admitting what we already know.

They've mortgaged off future revenue from public utilities for a one off windfall, and squandered state assets balancing the books with huge borrowing and leaving it all for future generations to pay back.

The only time the previous Labour government was paying off the national debt was in the few years that they followed the 5 year economic plan of the previous Conservative government. Afterwards they went on a spending splurge, which at first reduced the surplus, but by 2002(ie before the crash) led to borrowing being required.
Link

What the Manifesto said:

"For the next two years Labour will work within the departmental ceilings for spending already announced."
Conclusion: Pledge met.
In 1997-99, Labour stuck rigidly to the spending plans it inherited from the Conservatives, even though this sparked opposition on its own backbenches.

It might easier to cut back on single spending plans like road building, but spending on things like benefit levels, tax credits are almost impossible to cut back on. Gordon Brown purposely made tax credits more generous which led to an entrenched public spending requirement.
Link

Full details of what is on offer will not be made public until the spring, but the chancellor will use tomorrow's pre-budget report to signal the government's determination to widen the use of tax credits and make them more generous, despite rumblings in the party over whether the money would be better used on higher public spending.

Not sure how not having austerity in any shape or form would lead to paying off the national debt.


From 2008

How did it come to this? As trauma continues to course through the global financial system in the wake of the Lehman Brothers crash, the PM and his colleagues reassure us constantly that Britain is ‘well-prepared’ to withstand the shock of economic crisis. In fact, the opposite is true. It is a basic principle that most governments, even socialist ones, pay off debts in times of prosperity. Mr Brown’s innovation was to reject this tradition. Since Labour came to power, the national debt has risen 25 per cent to £581 billion. During the second it took you to read that last sentence, it rose by £1,520 — and that’s by the government’s more optimistic measure.

Labour's use of PFI locked in future spending for the next 30 years. Whatever government was in power would have to continue to pay those commitments.

Unofficially — and this is what Mr Brown grasped from the off, and what Mr Robinson was hinting at — PFI was an incredibly convenient way of concealing the true extent of public debt. Rather than pay upfront, the government promised to make fixed payments in each project over a period of about 30 years — keeping the whole thing off the books. PFI was a wizard’s cloak of invisibility which could be thrown around expensive new projects.

One myth is that Labour were good on social sector house building, and the Tories bad.
Just look at the graph in the link.
The yellow section of the graph which refers to housing association(ie social sector) building is much thinner under Labour than it was pre 1997 and post 2010. I got to admit, even I was surprised by that graph, because the impression that is given is that it was the reverse, ie Labour built more. The fact is they didn't, even in the good times.