Traffic shaping everything (inc newsgroups)

[popper]

Quote:
We reserve the right to monitor and control data volume and/or types of traffic transmitted via the Interactive Services and/or Internet Services. In the event that you exceed the usage allowances applicable to your Internet Services as detailed in the User Policy, we reserve the right (at our sole discretion) to reduce, suspend or terminate your Internet Services. During any time of reduction or suspension, you will remain liable for the payment of your original level of Internet Services charge. We also reserve the right (at our sole discretion) to re-grade your Internet Services to a different speed and/or usage allowance at the appropriate charge.

Originally Posted by Stuart C

However, as it says in the article, it does state in term 4.3 of the terms and conditions that


Thus, legally at least, NTL are covered.

actually given the whole UK consumer contract law etc, they ARE NOT covered.

youve got to love the 'at our sole discretion' thing, as any part of said consumer T&C contract that has that as part of a term will be disallowed and deemed unenforcable (get an N1 form and send it it perhaps?).

see the bank charges thread and the many threads over on CAG about these laws and reciprication(sp), perhaps Mr A can expand and clarify the parts Virgin Media (aka NTL:TW/virgin) are hopeing to bluff the average customers with....

---------- Post added at 18:45 ---------- Previous post was at 18:27 ----------

Originally Posted by DieDieMyDarling

In the event that you exceed your limits... according to the user policy... According to the user policy there is no limit on any speed therefore how can you exceed it? There's no doubt the ntl/telewest legal team could dance around it and make sure it stands up in court, but at the very least it's misleading to the customer, at worst it's blatent lying.

only in so far as the UK banks can try and do the same, HOWEVER, theres a very big difference between the banks legal teams and the legal teams of Virgin Media, that being the banks hold the purse strings of this country and are able to lets say influence the courts officials etc, the same cant be said for Virgin Media/NTL/TW.

[spankysmagicpian]

I really, really don't see what the fuss is about all this capping of speeds. I download a fair bit of stuff but I set it off when I go to bed and it finishes in the morning when I'm work. In the evening, I update Newsleecher and the whole process starts again at bedtime.

I would never download in peak times (well, nothing more than say an episode of something - 350Mb / 15mins and this is a rare occurance) as I am quite aware that if this was multiplied many times by many users, it would affect the network something rotten.

I would be not be bothered at all if they juggled the speeds about a bit depending on the time of day. I would be more than happy if my connection was limited to say 2Mb in the evening (16:00 to 00:00) and increase the speeds out of peak time. I don't think anyone would loose anything in all reality - nothing life threatening at least.

Would this work? (using my speeds as an example. I'm on 4Mb)

16:00 to 00:00 2Mb
00:00 to 16:00 10Mb

I'd be more than happy with that - I could download my stuff twice as fast (or double the amount!) overnight as I would normally and enjoy low pings and smooth surfing in the evening.

If they did bring out 20Mb then all those on 10Mb could have 5Mb in the evening and 20Mb off peak for the same money. I think it could work.

I'm quite sure that a quite a few of those on 10Mb are indeed the type of people who download 24/7 to sell dodgy DVDs at the car boots and it's these people that make the rest of you suffer in the evening.

[popper]

Originally Posted by zinglebarb

well whatever you want to do to try and pick holes in what I say if that makes you feel good then carry on feel free. Simple deal is your not going to change anything whether you argue intellectually or speak from my gut like I do so you have 2 choices put up with it or leave ntl simple

NO theres the other option and that is to help and inform.

your good at that zing, it just seems your rather blinkered when it comes to getting what you pay for with bandwidth quantity/speed etc , so, your a born-again-capper (as long as it doesnt effect you) :wink: after the hard time you had way back ....

it seems the british way of thinking is still alive and kicking, that being, 'ohh well you cant do anything so stop moaning or leave'.

theres the matter of 'receaving what you pay for' and theres always the option to force these UK companys to provide what they get payed for, that in effect might mean filling in an N1 form down your county court if needs be and Mr Angry is just the person to do it if it comes to that.....

i wonder , if you were to go into your usual computer shop and order an item, lets say a 200gig HD,and pay for it, and in return they give you a 100gig HD at the 200 gig price and no refund of the difference?, would you be so quick to say in effect 'im alright jack so scr*w you' ill come back at 12oclock when its cheaper.... and noones about.

i suspect you wouldnt let it pass , does anyone think that goods and services providers are or should be treated differently in uk law with respect of Actually receaving goods&services payed for? , and lets not forget the fact you do pay BEFORE you receave with Virgin Media/NTL/TW and so the moment they take that payment the contract is valid (unlawful T&C entrys not withstanding etc).

i do wonder though if these Newsleecher people stopped leeching then there would be lots of bandwidth for other uses perhaps.... ? after all, reading this thread alone, it seems thats the prefered way to upload/download your wares..... overnight.

[Benson]

You dont see what the fuss is about spankysmagicpian ?

The fuss is we all joined NTL/Telewest under the agreement that we would pay £35 per month in exchange for a totally uncapped 10mb line.But what we are receiving is not what was advertised we are infact having restriction placed on our connections and are still paying the same monthly charge,is that hard to understand?

I agree with your next suggestion if they introduce 20mb i would not be to unhappy with a restriction to 10mb during peak periods i would also say i wouldnt be as angry as i currently am if they said as result of our peak time capping we are going to reduce your monthly bill by X amount.

The fact is no has been directly contacted by our isp to inform us of this traffic shaping in any form,its only when we complain repeatedly that they admit its going on.This is the biggest factor that has annoyed me,the fact that this has been done in such a sly fashion without any refund to the customers experiancing this capping.

I think the current waiting time when you call them up reflects the number of complaints they are currently receiving i called yesterday and the advised waiting time was 45min i then called later in the day and it was 1 hour.

[Horace]

So has anyone (Mr Angry for example :P) got any idea whatsoever how much you need to download during the daytime to have your speed cut?

[popper]

Originally Posted by zinglebarb

Taking them to task is gonna do what????? absolutely nothing

In my experience NTL provide the best internet service as far as stability is concerned. We hear the bad stories on this forum there are countless customers who are happy with there service. Ive tried ADSL services with there upto claims and suffered from seriously naff internet stability. At least on 10 meg you get the 10 meg on the whole for most the day being capped to 5 isnt that bad when most people wouldnt even be able to get near that with a bt line

sure , i think most people on here at least understand your saying , they are a/the best of a bad bunch, but it seems Mr A is saying stop letting all these Uk firms take your/our money and not provide what they say they will.

and that means taking them to task I.E take em to court if needs be, but im sure you already got that..

btw theres a new section on CAG for exactly this purpose, its covering TW last i looked but thats because people havent wised up yet and also included Virgin Media/NTL/TW as a whole yet.

perhaps if readers cant get transparent action from Virgin Media here then it might be werth relocating to CAG as a community and see if CAG can also get insider links to the people that can help and improve general action rather than they force end users to take the slightly/longer harder route and have to fill in the N1 forms only as a last resort?.

---------- Post added at 21:59 ---------- Previous post was at 21:55 ----------

Originally Posted by Horace

So has anyone (Mr Angry for example :P) got any idea whatsoever how much you need to download during the daytime to have your speed cut?

personally i think they will say its top secret information , like those so called bank charges, so your not likely to get the info as its good for boardroom profits to keep it that way for know.

[Benson]

Originally Posted by Horace

So has anyone (Mr Angry for example :P) got any idea whatsoever how much you need to download during the daytime to have your speed cut?

As i said yesterday it makes no difference at all you could be offline all day and you will still be restricted in the evening at least thats what i was told when i called telewest.They are capping all users not just users who are hammering their connection he said basically its like a switch is flicked at a set times and ALL connections are then capped to half their original bandwidth.

I think if any person from NTL Corporate has seen this thread they must know that a little communication would go a long way to help its customer satisfaction/image. Do NTL take notice of this forum?????

[popper]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

I'm in Belfast, I have official confirmation of traffic shaping in this region.

LOL, did you send in your email to The Guardian yet, that will be a very good read im sure...

Originally Posted by popper

NO theres the other option and that is to help and inform.

your good at that zing, it just seems your rather blinkered when it comes to getting what you pay for with bandwidth quantity/speed etc , so, your a born-again-capper (as long as it doesnt effect you) :wink: after the hard time you had way back ....

it seems the british way of thinking is still alive and kicking, that being, 'ohh well you cant do anything so stop moaning or leave'.

theres the matter of 'receaving what you pay for' and theres always the option to force these UK companys to provide what they get payed for, that in effect might mean filling in an N1 form down your county court if needs be and Mr Angry is just the person to do it if it comes to that.....

i wonder , if you were to go into your usual computer shop and order an item, lets say a 200gig HD,and pay for it, and in return they give you a 100gig HD at the 200 gig price and no refund of the difference?, would you be so quick to say in effect 'im alright jack so scr*w you' ill come back at 12oclock when its cheaper.... and noones about.

i suspect you wouldnt let it pass , does anyone think that goods and services providers are or should be treated differently in uk law with respect of Actually receaving goods&services payed for? , and lets not forget the fact you do pay BEFORE you receave with Virgin Media/NTL/TW and so the moment they take that payment the contract is valid (unlawful T&C entrys not withstanding etc).

i do wonder though if these Newsleecher people stopped leeching then there would be lots of bandwidth for other uses perhaps.... ? after all, reading this thread alone, it seems thats the prefered way to upload/download your wares..... overnight.

Trust me mate I get my moneys worth

I am also a dab hand at handling a computer efficiently and effectively ive whittled down my tasks to make them as easy as possible.
So I put to this thread an efficient guide to pc use at peak times when your sat there on it.
Browse the web
either create nzbs for you downloading or hunt your torrents(unless its porn you want and only streaming will do )
Play your games or watch your films
Then when your not sat at the machine download your files

Downloading whilst performing other tasks on an average machine is fraught with system lagging complexities. Most computers available have just 1 hard disk meaning that if your constantly downloading at 5 meg or 10 meg or whatever speed your constantly writing to disk this along with opening applications and web pages or browsing will create lag due to disk swapping etc, So this to me proves downloading at full pelt whilst wanting to do other things be it web browsing disk burning just wouldnt be effective use. So use your computers on peak download your files when your not there and manage the use of your machinery better.In real terms if this cap works and only hits heavy users and only cuts to 5 meg then its seriously not going have a massive effect in any real terms to the user

[morrk]

Originally Posted by zinglebarb

Trust me mate I get my moneys worth

I am also a dab hand at handling a computer efficiently and effectively ive whittled down my tasks to make them as easy as possible.
So I put to this thread an efficient guide to pc use at peak times when your sat there on it.
Browse the web
either create nzbs for you downloading or hunt your torrents(unless its porn you want and only streaming will do )
Play your games or watch your films
Then when your not sat at the machine download your files

Downloading whilst performing other tasks on an average machine is fraught with system lagging complexities. Most computers available have just 1 hard disk meaning that if your constantly downloading at 5 meg or 10 meg or whatever speed your constantly writing to disk this along with opening applications and web pages or browsing will create lag due to disk swapping etc, So this to me proves downloading at full pelt whilst wanting to do other things be it web browsing disk burning just wouldnt be effective use. So use your computers on peak download your files when your not there and manage the use of your machinery better.In real terms if this cap works and only hits heavy users and only cuts to 5 meg then its seriously not going have a massive effect in any real terms to the user

Personally I remote access my main pc from my laptop whilst broswing and whatnot.

I assume you are not affected by this YET zing?

At the end of the day whatever you and anyone else says this is meant to be UNLIMITED.

I do not leech 24/7 but expect to get the speed I pay for when I get home from work.

I have searched the NTL user policy and terms and conditions and cannot find what THEY expect to be acceptable. This is the problem here methinks!

no but I dont download at peak anyway. being capped to 5 meg during the peak time wouldnt effect me. If it kills the conenction because they aint set it up right (which is not the accusations in seeing here) then ill swear a bit but if it works as it should ill be fine with it

Edit my tvdrive dont work properly and I aint bitching to much about it (ive gained tolerance in my old age )

[morrk]

You only got a couple of years on me dude :P

Why am I so angry

[DieDieMyDarling]

Originally Posted by zinglebarb

no but I dont download at peak anyway. being capped to 5 meg during the peak time wouldnt effect me. If it kills the conenction because they aint set it up right (which is not the accusations in seeing here) then ill swear a bit but if it works as it should ill be fine with it

Edit my tvdrive dont work properly and I aint bitching to much about it (ive gained tolerance in my old age )

You only care about beating the system, you want to download however many hundred GB, as long as you can do that you don't care a jot about the main issue. I'm fine with you downloading what you want, i do it myself, and i can still do it now, but taht really isn't the issue at hand.

The issue is ntl feel they can do whatever they want and to hell with the customer, they can do things without informing us, against the T&C, if a few people find out and moan about it on this forum, then they give a bit of info to the admin, something to slightly explain what is going on.

THe more the company get off with things like this, the more they'll take. Remember last time they snuck changes to the AUP in overnight, then suddenly there was caps being introduced, now because of the competition they can't introduce caps, it doesn't sell well, most providers have proved this and changed accordingly. So, instead ntl try traffic shaping, which as a bonus includes a speed cap, thereby giving users half of what they're paying for.

You may well argue that you can still use 10mb overnight, but a lot of users can't use their computers overnight, a lot can't do what we do, they wouldn't know how to use newsgroups, they wouldn't trust leaving the computer on all night, unattended, why should they suffer when they aren't even guilty of the issues leading to a need for traffic sharing?

I've done what you're doing, and to a certain extent i still am, as much as 20GB a day at one point, and i could still do that now if i wanted, it won't affect my downloading habits much at all. But it's still wrong of them to do what they are doing.

I'm thinking of opening a book as to whether THIS thread will longer than any of the three former capping threads.