smoking and the pub

[ian@huth]

Originally Posted by clarie

Yep, and as I have said before, why should I be restricted in what pubs I go to by whether or not I am willing to passively smoke? What if my local is designated a smokers' pub? Or what if your local was made a non-smokers' club?

With my suggestion, neither of us need change our choice of venue, it's just that when you want a fag, you pop off to the smokers' room. If you want to smoke that much I am sure it's not too much of an effort.

It appears to me from reading the last few pages of this thread that smokers are willing to make compromises but non-smokers just want everything their way.

How about a pub landlord having the choice of whether he wants his pub to be smoking or non-smoking? If he decides that it is to be a smoking pub then he provides a room or outhouse where the non-smoker can sit to escape the smoke. It is all about rights and in my eyes the owner of the establishment who puts up the money to open and run it should have the ultimate say in what goes on in his establishment. Why should that landlord have to ban smoking in all of his establishment just in case you or other non-smokers want to have a drink there? It is all about choice and smokers should have the ability to choose just as much as non-smokers, but more importantly the owner of the building should have the ultimate choice.

[SlackDad]

Personally I don't think comparing smoking in pubs with cars is such a bad analogy. Although there could be a debate around the necessity of smoking if we accept that it isn't, and doing so around others is detrimental to their health, then it isn't so different from driving a car for many of the car trips that are made.

Another point. Many of the common household cleaners, beauty products etc. have ingrediants, many of which their effects have not even been tested on humans. Eternity, for instance contains neurotoxins, allergens, irritants and hormone disrupters. Why aren't these facts more widely known when, for example, asthma/eczema rates in children are on the increase. Maybe we should ban wearing perfume in public places. Sounds ridiculous, I know.

The effects of smoking are widely known, and many make that decison in view of these facts. Stopping smoking in public places, especially pubs, is IMO going to do little to stop the effects on those most vulnerable, namely children.

[Kliro]

Originally Posted by SlackDad

Personally I don't think comparing smoking in pubs with cars is such a bad analogy. Although there could be a debate around the necessity of smoking if we accept that it isn't, and doing so around others is detrimental to their health, then it isn't so different from driving a car for many of the car trips that are made.

Another point. Many of the common household cleaners, beauty products etc. have ingrediants, many of which their effects have not even been tested on humans. Eternity, for instance contains neurotoxins, allergens, irritants and hormone disrupters. Why aren't these facts more widely known when, for example, asthma/eczema rates in children are on the increase. Maybe we should ban wearing perfume in public places. Sounds ridiculous, I know.

The effects of smoking are widely known, and many make that decison in view of these facts. Stopping smoking in public places, especially pubs, is IMO going to do little to stop the effects on those most vulnerable, namely children.

But its a start - just because the process might be slow is no excuse to do nothing about it at all. Neither is saying, well this is bad too, so anouther bad thing doesn't matter.

[clarie]

Originally Posted by Chris W

it always amazes me how ex smokers take a much more anti smoking stance than non-smokers...

In my case, I find the reason is because I know how easy it is to give up, and that the benefits of giving up are so great.

I think it is also because I am particularly annoyed at myself for having been a smoker and for having damaged others' health with my smoking.

Also once you have given up, the smell of smoke becomes particularly repulsive, and when you think that you have been spending money to put that **** in your body it makes you feel even more sick.

Originally Posted by orangebird

Originally Posted by clarie
Ok shotgun the local!

It was a joke....

Imagine if you and I did have the same local pub and both loved it as much as the other. I was saying if we did, then shotgun that pub becoming one of the non-smoking pubs.

[Wicked_and_Crazy]

what do people think about the story of nicotene addiction? People say they cant give up because theyre addicted to nicotene. Having never smoked i cant comment. MY question is if people can sleep for eight hours without nicotene then why cant they go eight waking hours without nicotene.

People addicted to other drugs wake up because of their addiction.

So to extend my question, is smoking an addiction or just habitual?

[danielf]

Originally Posted by clarie

In my case, I find the reason is because I know how easy it is to give up, and that the benefits of giving up are so great.

I presume you mean how easy you found it to give up? It is generally considered a very hard addiction to break... I tried (unsuccessfully), and I certainly did not find it easy.

Originally Posted by danielf

I presume you mean how easy you found it to give up? It is generally considered a very hard addiction to break... I tried (unsuccessfully), and I certainly did not find it easy.

you got 'Kinged' too, very well deserved in my opinion

- but did you give up in the end, I did - apart from the lapse marina will testify to, last year (love you ), It is easier now - and my chest works a lot better

[danielf]

Originally Posted by homealone

you got 'Kinged' too, very well deserved in my opinion

- but did you give up in the end, I did - apart from the lapse marina will testify to, last year (love you ), It is easier now - and my chest works a lot better

Ta

I still smoke. I still hope to give up at some point though

Originally Posted by danielf

Ta

I still smoke. I still hope to give up at some point though

anything I can help with, etc - and not me just being a smug bar steward, danielf, get in touch

[clarie]

Yeah, I do mean how easy I found it to give up. However the fact that people do give it up every day shows that it is entirely possible.


I had an interesting conversation with a friend about this the other day. I was saying how, admittedly, although I had smoked on and off for 10 years, I don't think I was addicted, or rather that I was constantly addicted. The amount I smoked varied hugely; sometimes I smoked every day, throughout the day, sometimes I was only smoking when I went out. She was the same, and both of us found it relatively easy to quit. However, her boyfriend cannot conceive of quitting, and I doubt he ever will. He smokes at very regular times throughout the day, and whilst my friend and I would smoke loads on a night out and not at all during the day, when he is out he doesn't smoke any more than he does on a night in. I think he smokes about 10 a day, at set times.

This leads me to believe that addiction to smoking is largely based on habit, and also on association. When I was out I constantly wanted to smoke, because the alcohol seemed to make a perfect partner for a cigarette. I liked to smoke after heavy meals. Other people love a fag with a coffee, or one before breakfast.

I believe 'addiction' to cigarettes is hugely to do with habit and association, and less to do with the drug itself.

Originally Posted by Wicked_and_Crazy

what do people think about the story of nicotene addiction? People say they cant give up because theyre addicted to nicotene. Having never smoked i cant comment. MY question is if people can sleep for eight hours without nicotene then why cant they go eight waking hours without nicotene.

People addicted to other drugs wake up because of their addiction.

So to extend my question, is smoking an addiction or just habitual?

both - imo

- which is why it is so addictive, hand to mouth causes nice feeling, is a fundamental level in our psyche, nicotine rewards that in an unique way

[Salu]

Smokers...... Imagine being in the pub in a group of 4 friends at the pub and every 3 mins 2 of them f@rt, long and loud.....Imagine the smell forcing it's way into your nostrils.....making your nauseous....Crude, perhaps but this is similar to sitting next to a smoker for a non-smoker. The noise and the smell is in itself discourteous but when you consider that smoking actually causes your friend harm, is selfish and wrong.

This is why we are so passionate about it.

[Nugget]

Originally Posted by Salu

Smokers...... Imagine being in the pub in a group of 4 friends at the pub and every 3 mins 2 of them f@rt, long and loud.....Imagine the smell forcing it's way into your nostrils.....making your nauseous....Crude, perhaps but this is similar to sitting next to a smoker for a non-smoker. The noise and the smell is in itself discourteous but when you consider that smoking actually causes your friend harm, is selfish and wrong.

This is why we are so passionate about it.

When did you meet my friends?

[orangebird]

Originally Posted by ian@huth

It appears to me from reading the last few pages of this thread that smokers are willing to make compromises but non-smokers just want everything their way.

How about a pub landlord having the choice of whether he wants his pub to be smoking or non-smoking? If he decides that it is to be a smoking pub then he provides a room or outhouse where the non-smoker can sit to escape the smoke. It is all about rights and in my eyes the owner of the establishment who puts up the money to open and run it should have the ultimate say in what goes on in his establishment. Why should that landlord have to ban smoking in all of his establishment just in case you or other non-smokers want to have a drink there? It is all about choice and smokers should have the ability to choose just as much as non-smokers, but more importantly the owner of the building should have the ultimate choice.

__________________

Originally Posted by clarie

In my case, I find the reason is because I know how easy it is to give up, and that the benefits of giving up are so great.

You mean you found it easy to give up. Have a medal. That doesn't mean everyone does. And reading dome of your other post, you were barely more than a social smoker. I however have smoked 20 a day (possibly more on a particularly boozy night out), for the past 10 years and find the thought of giving up hard to deal with, let alone actually doing it.

Imagine if you and I did have the same local pub and both loved it as much as the other. I was saying if we did, then shotgun that pub becoming one of the non-smoking pubs

Pointless thought really. If my local goes nonsmoking, it'll close anyway. So therefore a good frind of mine loses her business and her money, I lose my second job and me and my other chuffing mates have to find a smoke-easy somewhere else....

[Salu]

Originally Posted by orangebird

__________________



You mean you found it easy to give up. Have a medal. That doesn't mean everyone does. And reading dome of your other post, you were barely more than a social smoker. I however have smoked 20 a day (possibly more on a particularly boozy night out), for the past 10 years and find the thought of giving up hard to deal with, let alone actually doing it.




Pointless thought really. If my local goes nonsmoking, it'll close anyway. So therefore a good frind of mine loses her business and her money, I lose my second job and me and my other chuffing mates have to find a smoke-easy somewhere else....

Do you smoke in front of non-smokers or take care to only go into smoking areas?