School helped secret abortion - Page 14

**Chris** · 02-07-2004, 11:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bex

i watched the news last night and i saw the footage of the scans. it was amazing to see. it really is going to fuel the abortion debate. if a foetus is that responsive at 12weeks when it is still legal to abort it, it is going to cause an up roar with the pro-lifers

It ought to cause an uproar with everybody, IMHO. I think a lot of people (by no means all, but a lot) have only been able to rationalise abortion in their own heads by viewing it as a 'clinical procedure' carried out on a 'thing' called a foetus, in which doctors excise the 'products of a pregnancy' from the womb.

When I look at those scans, it shows me what I have always believed to be the case. Even at that early stage, there is a human child. Totally dependent on its mother, but no less alive for that.

Bex · 02-07-2004, 13:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by towny

It ought to cause an uproar with everybody, IMHO. I think a lot of people (by no means all, but a lot) have only been able to rationalise abortion in their own heads by viewing it as a 'clinical procedure' carried out on a 'thing' called a foetus, in which doctors excise the 'products of a pregnancy' from the womb.

When I look at those scans, it shows me what I have always believed to be the case. Even at that early stage, there is a human child. Totally dependent on its mother, but no less alive for that.

i completely agree with you towny. it brings a new element into the debate about when life actually begins. looking at the footage, it shows the baby using the womb as a trampoline (thats how the reporter described it) so it would bring into question the claim that lifes began sooner than was first thought. maybe

Ramrod · 02-07-2004, 13:56

BMA demands care for living abortion babies*edit*.....not for those of a sensitive disposition

orangebird · 02-07-2004, 14:06

I'm trying really hard not to cry after reading that article...I'm still pro-choice, but the legal limit on how far to term you can go (ie 24 weeks) needs to be greatly reduced....

Ramrod · 02-07-2004, 14:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by orangebird

I'm trying really hard not to cry after reading that article...

It made me feel sick. Sorry, I should have prefaced it with a warning

Quote:

I'm still pro-choice, but the legal limit on how far to term you can go (ie 24 weeks) needs to be greatly reduced....

Thats how Mandy and I feel.

Bex · 02-07-2004, 14:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by orangebird

I'm trying really hard not to cry after reading that article...I'm still pro-choice, but the legal limit on how far to term you can go (ie 24 weeks) needs to be greatly reduced....

it is horrid. at uni i studied a course on "matters of life and death" the thrid year module was about capital punishment etc, and it also included abortion. we had to sit and listen to how they do later stage abortions (ie after the 24weeks) and it was awful. i saw a breif prgramme on it.... and it really wasn't pleasent. now that made me cry

orangebird · 02-07-2004, 14:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramrod

It made me feel sick. Sorry, I should have prefaced it with a warning

S'ok - I read it a little while ago in another paper, so I knew what was coming. I can't help but wonder what kind of people are the staff at that hospital who just let the baby (that survived for three days) lay there and die... sick/weak/inhumane b8stards who don't deserve the jobs they have IMO.

Quote:

Thats how Mandy and I feel.

Bex · 02-07-2004, 14:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by orangebird

S'ok - I read it a little while ago in another paper, so I knew what was coming. I can't help but wonder what kind of people are the staff at that hospital who just let the baby (that survived for three days) lay there and die... sick/weak/inhumane b8stards who don't deserve the jobs they have IMO.

but what if the mother refused to let them treat the child...... it prolly would have taken a while to get a court to say ya or nay on whether they could intervene.

having an abortion is one thing, but i dont know how the mother could have lived knowing the child was born alive but not doing anything to help it

orangebird · 02-07-2004, 14:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bex

but what if the mother refused to let them treat the child...... it prolly would have taken a while to get a court to say ya or nay on whether they could intervene.

having an abortion is one thing, but i dont know how the mother could have lived knowing the child was born alive but not doing anything to help it

That's assuming the mother knew this has happened. Either way Bexy, they allowed a baby to die. These new laws are more than welcome.

Bex · 02-07-2004, 14:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by orangebird

That's assuming the mother knew this has happened. Either way Bexy, they allowed a baby to die. These new laws are more than welcome.

i'm not disputing that they were not wrong to let it happen. but i think to a certain degree the hands of the medical profession are tied. i read an article on a women who insisted on having a home birth but the baby was breach. midwives weren't legally allowed to do anything, otherwise they would be charged, but they had to stand and watch, luckily the women came to her senses. but it illustrates that maybe the laws are too rigid

orangebird · 02-07-2004, 15:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bex

i'm not disputing that they were not wrong to let it happen. but i think to a certain degree the hands of the medical profession are tied. i read an article on a women who insisted on having a home birth but the baby was breach. midwives weren't legally allowed to do anything, otherwise they would be charged, but they had to stand and watch, luckily the women came to her senses. but it illustrates that maybe the laws are too rigid

But i'd break the law to save a baby's life....I can't believe there are people out there who wouldn't...

Nemesis · 02-07-2004, 15:09

The Law is an ass ......

Bex · 02-07-2004, 15:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemesis

The Law is an ass ......

care to elaborate... or do you mean in general?

Nemesis · 02-07-2004, 15:19

There have been many changes in the law that IMO, have been nothing more than PC weilding it's stupidly ugly head again.

Where has the common sense of this country/world actually gone. The politics and Laws now seem to be nothing more than a big popularity contest trying to score inexplicably poor points off each other.

The Law doesn't really protect the innocent, the children, the downtrodden, because at every turn there is some crappy get out clause that protects those that committed the crime or did the unthinkable.

It seems that only with public pressure do things actually turn out for the good.

I say again ... The Law is an ass.

Bex · 02-07-2004, 15:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemesis

There have been many changes in the law that IMO, have been nothing more than PC weilding it's stupidly ugly head again.

Where has the common sense of this country/world actually gone. The politics and Laws now seem to be nothing more than a big popularity contest trying to score inexplicably poor points off each other.

The Law doesn't really protect the innocent, the children, the downtrodden, because at every turn there is some crappy get out clause that protects those that committed the crime or did the unthinkable.

It seems that only with public pressure do things actually turn out for the good.

I say again ... The Law is an ass.

i agree. but im not entirely sure that public pressure actually has any influence. they just invent another clause to make it seem as though they have changed it