[Update] The UK votes to leave the EU

[Ignitionnet]

Looking at what's happened to Greece since he was prevented from doing his job there with their total subjugation to the troika and their asset stripping by Germany's private sector and others in progress perhaps not so much of a tit.

[heero_yuy]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Looking at what's happened to Greece since he was prevented from doing his job there with their total subjugation to the troika and their asset stripping by Germany's private sector and others in progress perhaps not so much of a tit.

On the other hand maybe he set the grounds for the subsequent financial castration of his country?

[pip08456]

As it is the supermarket chains that have over the years blamed EU regulations for their suppliers not being able to sell them bananas over a certain bend radius or bent carrots etc, it's hardly surprising Boris got confused.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

On the other hand maybe he set the grounds for the subsequent financial castration of his country?

Please explain the basis for that?

---------- Post added at 11:05 ---------- Previous post was at 10:59 ----------

Originally Posted by pip08456

As it is the supermarket chains that have over the years blamed EU regulations for their suppliers not being able to sell them bananas over a certain bend radius or bent carrots etc, it's hardly surprising Boris got confused.

Perhaps but sloppy and stupid. He's either being dishonest or incompetent.

If anything this campaign has shown what a shower of excrement our politicians are.

In the case of many their grasp of basic facts has been showing as lacking. In some cases there's that along with a devious and dishonest streak a mile wide.

I genuinely couldn't care less about the partisanship, just look at the utter shower we have in charge right now. It's no wonder public confidence in politicians is so low. About the only thing many seem able to do competently is be dishonestly manipulative. Though what can be expected when so many's previous jobs and subsequent ones offer no value to the economy and trade off family contacts and in the future those they made while MPs.

That's those who have actually worked outside of politics.

Look across all benches and the old boys/girls network is in full flow, meritocracy be damned. If you know the right people you're put up in a safe seat where the population would vote for a turd if it has the right colour rosette and you're in.

When you're done with those you then look at the Labour politician incubator, the NUS, and all you can do is shake your head.

After that look at how up to their elbows in corporate interests and lobbyists the Tories are. Then the level of control unions have given how the Labour party is funded. The revolving door between the Liberal Democrats and the EU. UKIP's associations. The SNP that seem to exist purely to blame Westminster for everything and score populist points.

Ugh.

[Osem]

What a difference a referendum makes eh...

The UK's been treated (understandably) like an irritant to the EU for years and even told to get out if we don't like it but now, suddenly, when we're actually considering that possibility, we're told that upon the UK's membership the EU's future (and all manner of other vital things) seems to rest. IMHO it says a lot about those running the EU show that they're apparently now so worried about Brexit and queueing up to tell us to stay yet just a few months ago were prepared to offer precious little by way of reform in order to make it happen and in so doing save the EU and avoid WWIII.

[Ignitionnet]

Asked a colleague kinda jokingly if Netherlands would be leaving the EU, his responses:

Not in the short term. Hoping UK will exit and become the nucleus of an EU 2.0
Ireland and Scandinavia to join 1st
then BeNeLux
Would be fun as Brussels is EU HQ
The problem with EU is keeping the economies in balance with so many different approaches and political morals
28 countries is just too many
twice the population number of the US
And they have a federal Gov

However he notes:

UK won't leave EU
Too many companies employing scare tactics
Even Obama
Companies and foreign Gov's should shut-up on internal politics

Definitely agree that a much looser relationship between more similar nations could work. UK is bloated and too large, too many countries with too many differences.

I would be very much in favour of free trade and maybe, conditionally, more between the British Isles, Scandinavian nations, Iceland, Netherlands. An EU 2.0 doing it right, based around mutual prosperity and advancement rather than using economic reasons as a cover for political union.

May even be something the Swiss and Norwegians would find attractive.

[Big Brian]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Asked a colleague kinda jokingly if Netherlands would be leaving the EU, his responses:



However he notes:



Definitely agree that a much looser relationship between more similar nations could work. UK is bloated and too large, too many countries with too many differences.

I would be very much in favour of free trade and maybe, conditionally, more between the British Isles, Scandinavian nations, Iceland, Netherlands. An EU 2.0 doing it right, based around mutual prosperity and advancement rather than using economic reasons as a cover for political union.

May even be something the Swiss and Norwegians would find attractive.

Aye that's one solution all right.

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

If anything this campaign has shown what a shower of excrement our politicians are.

.

Worries me that should vote out ,do we have enough competent politicians to run the country without Brussels to fall back on /blame

[techguyone]

That's occurred to me, it provides a nice convenient excuse currently. The big boys made me do it. It's an EU thing, we have to do it.

I honestly believe at this point the EU is more of a negative then a positive it is not democratic at all with too many unelected offices and powerful advisory boards that even over rule the parliament when it suits them. I do think it is possible for all European nations to trade and work together for the common good and be a beneficial thing for all nations involved but that is not the EU. The dream of a federal superstate is driving everything and nothing will be allowed to obstruct that end.

Europe is too diverse to ever be a single entity and whilst an illusion of success may be possible in the short term longer wise it will fail and likely badly so massively impacting all nations involved. Voting to leave ironically may be the way to a better way and future for all European nations and a better progression globally in terms of trade. I think it's important that the distinction between anti EU and anti European is highlighted as most of the people I know myself included are fully anti EU but pro European and the fact that some have decided being anti EU automatically means your anti European further highlights how far we have fallen in our attitudes.

Whilst this referendum has shown UK politicians to be what many of us have known for a while the UK is not the only nation with lazy and incompetent politicians it's Europe wide another side effect of the EU as no matter how badly most politicians perform nationally they are able to obtain lucrative careers in the EU after they get voted out. We need to leave not just for us but for everyone in the EU and only when we leave do we have a chance to rectify our domestic political situation a good start would be an end to professional politicians as we gave that a try and it's been a disaster let's get back to ordinary people from real life and pop the Westminster bubble once and for all.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by martyh

Worries me that should vote out ,do we have enough competent politicians to run the country without Brussels to fall back on /blame

With Boris as the King-in-waiting, your point is very valid. Michael Heseltine certainly thinks Boris is not No. 10 material:

Boris Johnson Lacks The Judgement To Be Prime Minister, Says Lord Heseltine

[heero_yuy]

Heseltine sold his soul to the EU decades ago. No surprise that he would personally attack Boris as an EU nemesis.

[Osem]

I agree that being anti EU certainly isn't being anti-Europe. I want the whole of Europe to be a happy, safe, prosperous place and anyone who doesn't must surely be insane. The EU plainly isn't achieving this, quite the reverse right now. IMHO it's a good idea taken much too far and very badly implemented by arrogant, singled minded, empire building, bureaucrats who will not listen and would rather insist on homogenising the member states than celebrating difference, facilitating trade, developing cultural links etc.

The UK leaving will only hasten the demise of the EU but that is probably going to be the only way to create something better.

---------- Post added at 18:10 ---------- Previous post was at 18:07 ----------

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

Heseltine sold his soul to the EU decades ago. No surprise that he would personally attack Boris as an EU nemesis.

The usual suspects indulging in the usual slurs. It's going on in both directions but IMHO the orchestrated attack by the remain side is increasingly reminding me of the SNP's nasty tactics. Let's just hope they're similarly unsuccessful.

[heero_yuy]

Originally Posted by Osem

The UK leaving will only hasten the demise of the EU but that is probably going to be the only way to create something better

It does seem to be the only way to reform the EU. Tinkering at the edges is pointless.

The usual suspects indulging in the usual slurs. It's going on in both directions but IMHO the orchestrated attack by the remain side is increasingly reminding me of the SNP's nasty tactics. Let's just hope they're similarly unsuccessful.

I just hope it backfires on those idiots.

Originally Posted by ianch99

With Boris as the King-in-waiting, your point is very valid. Michael Heseltine certainly thinks Boris is not No. 10 material:

Boris Johnson Lacks The Judgement To Be Prime Minister, Says Lord Heseltine

I think i agree with Heseltine ,Boris is probably ok as a mayor or possibly even a Minister but can you imagine Boris and Trump/Hilary trying to solve major world issues ....doesn't bare thinking about