Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2010) Vol. IV

Originally Posted by Hugh

But if you didn't have the cash to invest in the infrastructure (which enables you to get more customers, which in turn increases your cash-flow), the only way is debt.

It's how nearly everyone buys a house - they don't wait until they have saved all the money up.

True but I am talking about the kind of debt that you only pay the interest off that seems the case in VM (NTL) situation!

[HD addicted]

Off topic now?

[Horizon]

Originally Posted by HD addicted

Off topic now?

The thread is closing anyway, so we can have a little fun. Its not as if we know of any new channels definitely coming anyway, apart from 1tv+1.

Originally Posted by TheDon

The debt isn't anyones "fault". It's a purely business decision.

And bad ones at that, made over a 20 year timescale not helped but the shambles of a mess that the then government made of the cableco structures to begin with.

Originally Posted by TheDon

Debt isn't bad, in fact I'd argue it's vital to the well running of any company. You can often gain a far greater return on cash at hand than you're having to pay in debt interest, so why would you pay down debt if doing so will make you less money? (Not to mention that having debt allows you to avoid all sorts of taxes).

I spent a career working for people who used to say debt is "good". My response to that, utter rubbish. These same people will all be out of jobs next year when the Lehman Brothers tidal wave hits them.

When accountants say debt is good, I say is that how you run your household then, in debt?...It staggers growth and hinders investment opportunities as evidenced by the mess that has been the cable industry for the last 20 years and causes unnecessary pressures and distractions on managers. Not to mention the creditors can pull the plug at any time... Debt is not good and its only useless Americanised business practices that have infected the City over the last 30 years that say this.

[Media Boy UK]

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[howardmicks]

Recent developments have not been suprising to me at all,When it emerged that sky were buying vm`s channels i felt it would come back to haunt them.Vm were looking desperate to sell and sky knew it and vm are now and for the forseable future going to see the backlash of there actions,tivo looks very promising (tad overpriced) but its all well and good having a new platform but you have got to have the channels for people to watch.The main thing they should be concentrating on is HD Channels,They are still massively short of sky and they must now relise that delaying getting the channels cost them and now tv revenue on last quarter went up probably due to the flood of hd channels.Surely to justify the crazy price for tivo more hd channels are needed,To expect tivo to keep customers and attract new will be there downfall.More HD channels are needed,And one last thing If murdoch gets total control of sky it will only get worse.Vm need to keep there eye on the ball otherwise sky will be taking it back again

[Horizon]

Originally Posted by Hugh

But if you didn't have the cash to invest in the infrastructure (which enables you to get more customers, which in turn increases your cash-flow), the only way is debt.

Initally yes, but companies are meant to make money. The cable industry has always been in debt and not made a penny in profit. I know as I have about 1 ntl sdi bond and 1 and a bit telewest bonds left. These used to be many thousands of shares.... Yet, the cableco bosses gave themselves fat bonuses and pension packages. The late telewest boss (cob stenham) got a huge package now being spent by his wife. I don't see how that is good. And the company went bankrupt in a sea of debt in part as a result of his actions.

In the corporate world, debt is okay (not really, but just going along here) to pay for expansions/infrastructure, particularly if there is a competitor doing a land grab. But it should only be used as a short term tool, not a permanent way to run a company.

When will vm pay off the debt, 2016, 2020? I can't remember the timescales now. But i bet when the deadline approaches, vm's bosses will have yet another excuse to refinance (if they can) and prolong the debt even further.

[TheDon]

Originally Posted by Horizon

I spent a career working for people who used to say debt is "good". My response to that, utter rubbish. These same people will all be out of jobs next year when the Lehman Brothers tidal wave hits them.

When accountants say debt is good, I say is that how you run your household then, in debt?...It staggers growth and hinders investment opportunities as evidenced by the mess that has been the cable industry for the last 20 years and causes unnecessary pressures and distractions on managers. Not to mention the creditors can pull the plug at any time... Debt is not good and its only useless Americanised business practices that have infected the City over the last 30 years that say this.

Business debt is entirely different to personal debt.

And if personal debt is so bad, then why do so many people have mortgages? Debt is a tool that when used correctly can provide huge benefits.

Debt is great as long as you can attain it on terms that benefit you. If you can invest £xm and gain a y% return on it you'd be a fool not make that investment with debt if the interest rate of it is less than y%.

It only staggers growth and hinders investment if you're struggling under the debt, if the debt isn't on reasonable terms that aren't financially beneficial to you. Managed correctly debt DRIVES growth and investment, as it allows companies to grow faster than if they were operating entirely out of free cash flow. You simply cannot expand some businesses without debt because the cost of acquiring the necessary equipment is simply too great. Can you imagine how small the cable network would be if it was built without debt? It wouldn't exist at all.

There is no way in hell a creditor can "pull the plug at any time", loan agreements have very strict rules on when debt can and cannot be called in, if payments are being met then there is NOTHING a creditor can do to call in a debt.

[mattboothers]

OFF-TOPIC:

How do I connect my Laptop which has Media Center to my Virgin Media box (V+ SA)?? This is so I can view Virgin Media on Media Center thanks.

Thanks.

Originally Posted by mattboothers

OFF-TOPIC:

How do I connect my Laptop which has Media Center to my Virgin Media box (V+ SA)?? This is so I can view Virgin Media on Media Center thanks.

Thanks.

Matt that is way off topic I suggest starting a new thread on the V+ section of this forum

[Media Boy UK]

Last post of 2010.

Well this is my last post on Cable Forum for this year. But do not cry I will be back on Sunday with the all new ''Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2011) Vol. I'' thread.

The big thanks goes out to my insiders who has given me all the news. Also thanks to everyone who has posted on any of my threads this year.

And also thanks to Cable Forum for putting up with me this year as well.

Have an Safe and Happy new year.

See you all in 2011.

[Chad]

Originally Posted by Mr-S

Apprentally Premier Sports signed a deal with ESPN to carry their 'Friday Night Fights' show for 2 years which used to air on ESPN UK either live or in delay due to there scheduling clashes (usually clashes with NBA).

Very disappointed with ESPN, they have shown no commitment to Boxing in the UK and looks unlikely now that an ESPN 2 will launch if they are giving away rights that they own for up 2 years. If an ESPN 2 was launching they would have saved rights for that to enhance content on the channel.

Would like to have Premier Sports on VM for the Boxing and Copa Sudamericana coverage they have which are ignored by Sky and ESPN.

Seems that people on content team at VM make decisions based on their personal opinions rather than what viewers want... could list of a bunch of channels that they dont carry that many people want but refuse to carry.

This is a pay channel and unless was gonna made free on XL I cant see what the issue would be carrying it... MUTV has only 60k subs and I would love to how many of them on VM... very few I bet!

---------- Post added at 12:41 ---------- Previous post was at 12:36 ----------



Yep I agree, gutted about that. Shown no commitment to Boxing in UK yet would rather force feed us American college sports, MLB & NHL which nobody really cares about. Much bigger fanbase for Boxing in UK than those sports put together. Sky get great figures for Boxing and so did Setanta... I dont get why they keep ignoring the sport.

Reckon an ESPN 2 isnt coming now as if there was they would never hand over the rights for something they own to a competitor for 2 years!

Some good news! Looks like ESPN sold the rights to the LIVE broadcasts but will still be showing the programme. I copied this from the ESPN tv listings on their website.

Originally Posted by Media Boy

Last post of 2010.

Well this is my last post on Cable Forum for this year. But do not cry I will be back on Sunday with the all new ''Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2011) Vol. I'' thread.

The big thanks goes out to my insiders who has given me all the news. Also thanks to everyone who has posted on any of my threads this year.

And also thanks to Cable Forum for putting up with me this year as well.

Have an Safe and Happy new year.

See you all in 2011.

Have a great new years Media Boy and thanks for all the TV news updates in 2010. Lets hope VM make all our New Years with more HD channels in 2011

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by howardmicks

Recent developments have not been suprising to me at all,When it emerged that sky were buying vm`s channels i felt it would come back to haunt them.Vm were looking desperate to sell and sky knew it and vm are now and for the forseable future going to see the backlash of there actions,tivo looks very promising (tad overpriced) but its all well and good having a new platform but you have got to have the channels for people to watch.The main thing they should be concentrating on is HD Channels,They are still massively short of sky and they must now relise that delaying getting the channels cost them and now tv revenue on last quarter went up probably due to the flood of hd channels.Surely to justify the crazy price for tivo more hd channels are needed,To expect tivo to keep customers and attract new will be there downfall.More HD channels are needed,And one last thing If murdoch gets total control of sky it will only get worse.Vm need to keep there eye on the ball otherwise sky will be taking it back again

Sky appear now to be investing in quality, and the moves they have made to transfer budgets to the new 'Sky Living' channel and the American shows they have invested in for Sky Atlantic are proof of this. I'd certainly rather have quality over quantity any time.

This is why it is so important that we get Sky Atlantic. We are losing Bravo, Bravo 2 and Channel One. Whilst I only watched a small number of programmes from these channels, some of them were good (such as The Riches and Sarah Connor Chronicles) and I want access to every good programme that is shown. I don't care whether this is via live TV channels, video on demand (if it's reliable and doesn't miss off episodes or close the series down prematurely) or the internet (via TIVO) - I just want access to the programmes! Preferably in HD.

If Sky Atlantic is launched and we do not have access to these programmes, I will be seriously annoyed. I mean seriously annoyed. From day 1 please, Virgin Media.

[Dave42]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Sky appear now to be investing in quality, and the moves they have made to transfer budgets to the new 'Sky Living' channel and the American shows they have invested in for Sky Atlantic are proof of this. I'd certainly rather have quality over quantity any time.

This is why it is so important that we get Sky Atlantic. We are losing Bravo, Bravo 2 and Channel One. Whilst I only watched a small number of programmes from these channels, some of them were good (such as The Riches and Sarah Connor Chronicles) and I want access to every good programme that is shown. I don't care whether this is via live TV channels, video on demand (if it's reliable and doesn't miss off episodes or close the series down prematurely) or the internet (via TIVO) - I just want access to the programmes! Preferably in HD.

If Sky Atlantic is launched and we do not have access to these programmes, I will be seriously annoyed. I mean seriously annoyed. From day 1 please, Virgin Media.

sky adverts all ready said sky atlantic HD sky exclusive so thats out it remains to be seen if sky give us SD version

[undertakereddie]

Its Been Confirmed That TNA Will Moving To another Sky Channel But Sky Did'nt Confirm Which Channel it Will Be on I Got This Info from WrestlingNewsSource.com and Channel 5 Have Annouced That They have got a A Bunch of new Shows Coming in 2011 1 of Might Be Series 12 of Big Brother we won't Know Until January 2011.