[Update] The UK votes to leave the EU

Originally Posted by Big Brian

Actually, in all seriousness, it's primary aim was a single market not a political union.

you should read this it will become clear that political union was always the primary aim even as far back as 1950

Originally Posted by papa smurf

its a family forum so we can expect the debate to be a mixture of ages and opinions, its not just adult opinions that are welcome is it ?

You want your politicians to behave like children?

Anyone looking for impartial information may find this site useful.

http://ukandeu.ac.uk

They claim to offer evidence-based research in order to provide people with impartial information about the EU. “We were set up for that purpose,” says the group’s spokesman, Ben Miller.

“We regard ourselves as the only independent, impartial non-partisan organisation offering EU-specific advice. It’s open to politicians, journalists, civil servants, trades unionists and, of course, the public.”

Funded by the Economic and Social Research Council (ESRC), and based at King’s College London, the group boasts an impressive list of “explainers” who provide unbiased insights and analysis about UK-EU relations.

[Taf]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

What's the French media saying in general?

Many being interviewed, professional or public, have been saying that Brexit should signal Frexit. Although many called it "The Rebirth of France " (La Renaissance de France).

The Euro was as a mistake, especially allowing countries with huge debts to join it. And many price increases are blamed on it not on the global collapse.

Trying to extend the EU borders to countries with low incomes and poor job prospects has started mass migration to the north and west that those richer countries cannot afford. Racism against people from the old Soviet Bloc was growing, not against the rich or educated, but against the "gitans" (gipsies).

Unelected mandarins are running the EU with a plan to form the ESU which will destroy French identity.

And on the subject of Turkey joining, it has been a resounding "NON!"

But the other side has mostly been the more well-off praising the EU for preventing war. And not much else.

Some of the old guard have been saying that a strong EU (or ESU) will threaten Russia too much for it to be ignored.

Originally Posted by Hugh

Anyone looking for impartial information may find this site useful.

http://ukandeu.ac.uk

Waits for someone to deny that any such impartial organisation can exist.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

Waits for someone to deny that any such impartial organisation can exist.

i can't imagine hugh posting facts from an "impartial organisation" that weren't really impartial .

---------- Post added at 17:09 ---------- Previous post was at 17:08 ----------

Originally Posted by Maggy J

You want your politicians to behave like children?

they already do -i was referring to forum posters being from young to old with opinions that reflect the age gap .

[Big Brian]

Originally Posted by Taf

Many being interviewed, professional or public, have been saying that Brexit should signal Frexit. Although many called it "The Rebirth of France " (La Renaissance de France).

The Euro was as a mistake, especially allowing countries with huge debts to join it. And many price increases are blamed on it not on the global collapse.

Trying to extend the EU borders to countries with low incomes and poor job prospects has started mass migration to the north and west that those richer countries cannot afford. Racism against people from the old Soviet Bloc was growing, not against the rich or educated, but against the "gitans" (gipsies).

Unelected mandarins are running the EU with a plan to form the ESU which will destroy French identity.

And on the subject of Turkey joining, it has been a resounding "NON!"

But the other side has mostly been the more well-off praising the EU for preventing war. And not much else.

Some of the old guard have been saying that a strong EU (or ESU) will threaten Russia too much for it to be ignored.

I bet Greece feel the same about the Euro. Was indeed a big mistake. It was doomed from the start.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Anyone looking for impartial information may find this site useful.

http://ukandeu.ac.uk

I hope this is impartial, should be dropping through your door soon

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politic...endum-36286993

---------- Post added at 19:48 ---------- Previous post was at 19:47 ----------

Originally Posted by Big Brian

I bet Greece feel the same about the Euro. Was indeed a big mistake. It was doomed from the start.

I'm guessing they don't as they're still in it

[pip08456]

Anyone notice the Government spent £9m on their booklet but the Electoral Commission "only" spent £6.4m "including" a TV advert?

I just want the vote if people don't have a position by now they are never going too i'm getting fed up of the excrement from both sides and debate in a way is pointless because the EU will not fully disclose it's future plans. Brief economic uncertainty aside i've not seen or heard a thing that makes me want to vote to stay in and our referendum is creating debate in other countries about the same vote. Many in mainland europe are as fed up with the EU as us and want either complete reform or a disbanding of it and if nothing else this referendum in the UK has started that.

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

I just want the vote if people don't have a position by now they are never going too i'm getting fed up of the excrement from both sides and debate in a way is pointless because the EU will not fully disclose it's future plans. Brief economic uncertainty aside i've not seen or heard a thing that makes me want to vote to stay in and our referendum is creating debate in other countries about the same vote. Many in mainland europe are as fed up with the EU as us and want either complete reform or a disbanding of it and if nothing else this referendum in the UK has started that.

Sounds reasonable to me.

Originally Posted by papa smurf

i can't imagine hugh posting facts from an "impartial organisation" that weren't really impartial .

---------- Post added at 17:09 ---------- Previous post was at 17:08 ----------



they already do -i was referring to forum posters being from young to old with opinions that reflect the age gap .

My apologies for the misunderstanding.

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

I'm guessing they don't as they're still in it

Not through their own choice:

Some European scholars have insisted on the shaky legal grounds upon which the "troika" composed of the EU Commission, the European Central Bank and the IMF has pursued the harsh macroeconomic adjustment plans imposed on Greece, claiming they infringe upon Greece's sovereignty and interfere in the internal affairs of an independent EU nation-state: "the overt infringements on Greek sovereignty we're witnessing today, with EU policy makers now double-checking all national data and carefully 'monitoring' the work of the Greek government sets a dangerous precedent.

and the plan that was to be imposed on Greece if they did try to leave was a bit much:

"Plan Z" is the name given to a 2012 plan to enable Greece to withdraw from the eurozone in the event of Greek bank collapse.[30] It was drawn up in absolute secrecy by small teams totalling approximately two dozen officials at the EU Commission (Brussels), the European Central Bank (Frankfurt) and the IMF (Washington).[30] Those officials were headed by Jörg Asmussen (ECB), Thomas Wieser (Euro working group), Poul Thomsen (IMF) and Marco Buti (European Commission).[30] To prevent premature disclosure no single document was created, no emails were exchanged, and no Greek officials were informed.[30] The plan was based on the 2003 introduction of new dinars into Iraq by the Americans and would have required rebuilding the Greek economy and banking system ab initio, including isolating Greek banks by disconnecting them from the TARGET2 system, closing ATMs, and imposing capital and currency controls.

link

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

Not through their own choice:

and the plan that was to be imposed on Greece if they did try to leave was a bit much:
link

and they still prefer all that to just actually leaving?

Actually leaving the Euro would have been so catastrophic that it would have to have been planned and executed just like that.

I still think they should have done it.