Should Corporal Punishment Be Brought Back ?

Originally Posted by Bifta

You're probably right, the link from that article is here

http://www.nospank.net/sexdngrs.htm

Sheesh!

Originally Posted by timewarrior2001

Which ever way you like it, the left wingers have won on this.
Not only are we not allowed to smack our own children, wqe are not allowed to defend ourselves. If I was attacked by a gang of kids threatening me, I am Damned sure I give at least one of them a few injuries.

Oh ye gods, Timewarrior, will you *PLEASE* stop conflating self-defence with *deliberately injuring* someone to get "revenge"...

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Flubflow

Young children don't really have a handle on the concept of absolute justice as you or I know it. They learn that a slap not only hurts them but is also used to get things done your way and they will happily employ this technique themselves against other children.

They learn that a slap is the punishment for doing something wrong.
They *are* able to diferenciate that from just thumping someone.
Young children have an excellent handle on the core of justice.
That's why kids are so good at running to their parents to tell on their siblings.
They know their siblings have done something wrong, and they've leant that their parents are the ones to handle the punishment.
This teaches them to respect authority.

Originally Posted by Flubflow

What happens when they get caught inflicting violence? They get another slap. And on and on we go.

If John locks someone else away against their will, should John not be locked away for doing wrong?
Or should you just reason with him, get him to say "yes, I understand what I did was wrong, I'm sorry, I won't do it again" and let him go?

[Flubflow]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

They learn that a slap is the punishment for doing something wrong.
They *are* able to diferenciate that from just thumping someone.
Young children have an excellent handle on the core of justice.
That's why kids are so good at running to their parents to tell on their siblings.
They know their siblings have done something wrong, and they've leant that their parents are the ones to handle the punishment.
This teaches them to respect authority.



If John locks someone else away against their will, should John not be locked away for doing wrong?
Or should you just reason with him, get him to say "yes, I understand what I did was wrong, I'm sorry, I won't do it again" and let him go?

My original post was a very a small one so there was no need for you to snip portions out in the quote. If you think your argument is that strong then there should be no need for you to falsely lessen the impact of mine in this way.

Yes children do learn that a slap means that they have done something wrong. Wouldn't you rather not have to slap them at all and get an even better result (especially the child not crying his/her eyes out and hating you even just for a short time)? Also, with positive discipline there is a certain amount of self-learning and general improvement in attitude so that you lessen the chance of other offences occuring for which you would still have to smack for. Specific reactionary physical punishment is just a series of smacks for specific brands of naughtiness throughout each stage of development until eventually they are too old to be smacked.

Doing things more positively does not mean talking to the child in the fashion of an old hippy cliche after the event. It involves getting more involved with them using all of the time you can spare. If you really wanted to you could read about it, learn and try it out.

Anyway, I am one of the old f*ckers around here. Traditionally I am supposed to be the type that says, "bring back the birch" and all that stuff. If even I can realise that there is a more rewarding way then maybe you should give it some genuine thought.

[Florence]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

If John locks someone else away against their will, should John not be locked away for doing wrong?
Or should you just reason with him, get him to say "yes, I understand what I did was wrong, I'm sorry, I won't do it again" and let him go?

The main problem here is that some children say they are sorry so regular they never mean it and continue to do the same thing repeatedly. This is true for many chilldren today most of todays children do have a nasty reputation for hurting the feelings or fighting most have disregard for others and no respect for their elders, peers or other peoples property.

[Pierre]

"spare the rod, spoil the child"

The problem nowadays is that there is no effective punishment for kids and/or adults. They know they can be unruly with no comeback.

How can we expect teachers to be able to control disruptive and unruly chidren without:
An effective deterrent?
Support from the childrens parents?
Support from the government?
Support from the legal system?

If a little Ba***rd grows up knowing he can stick two fingers up to authority and get away with it. Then what going to stop him doing that in adult life.

Discipline is a cornerstone of an ordered society, unfortunately the bleeding heart liberals and do gooders have forgotten this, and instead like to invent new terms for things.

Attention deficiency syndrome - Boll*cks. If the kid's not paying attention then bloody well make him pay attention.

It really winds me up.

[Bifta]

Originally Posted by Pierre

"spare the rod, spoil the child"

†œSpare the rod and spoil the childââ‚ƚ¬Ã‚ÂÂÂ�, though much quoted, is in fact a misinterpretation of Biblical teaching. While the †œrodâà ƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚¬Ã‚ÂÂÂ� is mentioned many times in the Bible, it is only in the Book of Proverbs that this word is used in connection with parenting. The book of Proverbs is attributed to Solomon, an extremely cruel man whose harsh methods of discipline led his own son, Rehoboam, to become a tyrannical and oppressive dictator who only narrowly escaped being stoned to death for his cruelty. In the Bible there is no support for harsh discipline outside of Solomonââ‚à ‚¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s Proverbs. By contrast, the writings in the Gospels, the most important books in the Bible for Christians, contain the teachings of Jesus Christ, who urged mercy, forgiveness, humility, and non-violence. Jesus saw children as being close to God, and urged love, never punishment.

[Pierre]

And your point is?

[Bifta]

Originally Posted by Pierre

And your point is?

I think that's fairly obvious given your previous post.

Originally Posted by Pierre

If a little Ba***rd grows up knowing he can stick two fingers up to authority and get away with it. Then what going to stop him doing that in adult life.

Sometimes that's exactly what authority needs, blind obedience should not be encouraged.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Bifta

I think that's fairly obvious given your previous post.

If it was obvious I wouldn't have asked. If you are offering an opposing view to mine it would be handy to either respond to my points or offer some argument of your own.

You have done neither which is why I had to ask what your point was

[Bifta]

Originally Posted by Pierre

If it was obvious I wouldn't have asked. If you are offering an opposing view to mine it would be handy to either respond to my points or offer some argument of your own.

You have done neither which is why I had to ask what your point was

Let me spell this out very simply for you as clearly it's becoming too much of a challenge for you to understand.

You, like many other people quoted "spare the rod, spoil the child" out of context, perhaps if you'd read the entire thread you'd have noticed this, obviously you haven't and perhaps it'd be a good idea for you to start from the beginning.

[downquark1]

If a little Ba***rd grows up knowing he can stick two fingers up to authority and get away with it. Then what going to stop him doing that in adult life.

If people weren't so shocked about two erect fingers they wouldn't do it.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Bifta

Let me spell this out very simply for you as clearly it's becoming too much of a challenge for you to understand.

You, like many other people quoted "spare the rod, spoil the child" out of context, perhaps if you'd read the entire thread you'd have noticed this, obviously you haven't and perhaps it'd be a good idea for you to start from the beginning.

Why do think it is being used out of context? If it doesn't refer to the discipline of children, please advise what it refers to?

[cjay]

i think that actually smaking ur child is now illegal isnt it, i think its taking it abit far not allowing parents to decide whether or not they can disapline their child, however there is always the fear of it being taken to far. im not sure about caning etc, although if u knew there was a possiblity then you wouldnt take the risk would you? - i know i wouldnt!